Meet Carl Hansen! Carl is a Director, Producer, and Disability Advocate and he lives in Los Angeles. He's an award-winning filmmaker and Emmy-winning producer who has been a Co-Executive Producer and Supervising Producer on such shows as the cultural phenomenon Shark Tank and the groundbreaking Boston Med. He's also an acclaimed timed-short filmmaker with his team, Cultural Detritus. Since 2005 they have made 29 films, many of which have gone on to win several awards. As if that’s not enough, Carl is also a passionate advocate for diversity and inclusion, most especially for people with disabilities, in the Entertainment industry. Most importantly, Carl is one of my oldest friends and I’m super excited to share this laughter-filled conversation with you all. We chat about our early shared passion for film, the importance of paying it forward, and what it means to be a diversity & inclusion advocate especially when it comes to the disabled community and Hollywood. Find out more about Carl and his 48-Hour Films on the Cultural Detritus website: https://www.culturaldetritus.com/about-us Connect with Carl on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fhansen1 Connect with Carl on Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/fcarlhansen Find out more about Blissful Spinster & connect with Chadwick Pawsman on the website: https://www.blissfulspinster.com
[00:00:00] Cris: Hi, and welcome to Blissful Spinster. This week's guest is director producer and disability advocate. Carl Hansen, Carl lives in Los Angeles and is an award-winning filmmaker and Emmy winning producer. Carl has been a C0-EP and supervising producer on such shows as the cultural phenomenon shark tank and the groundbreaking Boston med.
[00:00:18] Carl is also an acclaimed time short filmmaker with his team, Cultural Detritus, since 2005, they've made 29 films. Many of which have gone on to win several awards. Most importantly, Carl is one of my oldest friends and I'm super excited to share this laughter filled conversation with you all. We chat about our early shared passion for film, the importance of paying it forward and what it means to be a diversity and inclusion advocate, especially when it comes to the disability community in Hollywood.
[00:00:45] So, however you found this podcast. Thank you for tuning in and please enjoy this week's episode. Hi Carl, how are you? Good.
[00:00:53] Carl: How are you doing? Well, good. I'm very happy to be here with you. Thank you for asking for me to asking me to be a part of
[00:00:58] Cris: it. Oh, no worries. [00:01:00] You're one of my favorite human beings. So of course you'd be included.
[00:01:04] Carl: Oh, you may hear the sound of my standing desk at the moment. I don't
[00:01:07] Cris: know. Uh, oh, I thought, I thought you were just, you were taking the elevator down to the basement. What are you bringing up for us? Oh,
[00:01:13] Carl: uh, now, yeah, coming back up. What did you get in the
[00:01:16] Cris: basement?
[00:01:18] Carl: I was looking for an XLR cable for the microphone that doesn't work right now.
[00:01:22] but I couldn't find that. Couldn't find it. So wait a
[00:01:24] Cris: minute. If you don't have a microphone, how do I hear you? I
[00:01:27] Carl: don't have mic here. Okay. Here. You know what? We're gonna pretend I'm gonna, I'm gonna put just this microphone that has no connecting cable to it. It's not connecting anything, but I can use it as a prop mic.
[00:01:38] Okay.
[00:01:38] Cris: For, for listeners out there who can't see this, Carl has reached behind him and grabbed the microphone on the, put it.
[00:01:48] Carl: That's right. And actually, you know what, to that point, Chris, I would love to give a physical description of myself. People know what I look like, cuz I know when we were on clubhouse and I was co-hosting the disability representation room that [00:02:00] became a big thing for blind and low vision people to know what somebody looks like.
[00:02:04] So I'm a Caucasian man. I am bald and I have a gray beard. I'm wearing, uh, blue glasses. I have headphones on and I'm in a film festival. T-shirt for the damn short film festival that, um, second act Danny J Gomez was in earlier. This. And I'm here in my home office,
[00:02:20] Cris: his, uh, home office for the visually impaired needs a little cleanup.
[00:02:24] He told me that before we recorded,
[00:02:25] Carl: luckily you can't see much of it on an audio podcast. So that's
[00:02:29] Cris: fantastic. And to join in, because one of the things that Carl who's, one of my oldest friends and I connect on is wanting to figure out how to be the most inclusive with our projects, whether that means gender or race or ethnicity, uh, or, um, ability.
[00:02:45] And so I am a Caucasian woman. I have, uh, reddish blonde hair that's down in my shoulder and green eyes and I'm in a t-shirt that's blue. And in my I'm in my very yellow. Very messy kitchen [00:03:00] in the background.
[00:03:00] Carl: I love that you're inclusive. And you wanna do inclusive content. I love, I love when we have those conversations when they're not being recorded as well.
[00:03:07] Cris: Yeah. So Carl let's, let's go back a little bit, cuz we're both filmmakers, but it might be fun for people cuz I think one of the most important lessons that filmmakers can learn is to network laterally, to make friends, but then, but also to be there for each other and support each other as you, we both move up.
[00:03:25] And why don't you tell everyone how we met? Cuz it's a funny story.
[00:03:28] Carl: I know the very first time we met was on a spring break movie that Mike fly was producing the quest. Uh, and it was in, uh, Colorado. And you were the assistant director and I was one of the location managers. And so we had to. In tandem with each other.
[00:03:45] And one of the days that I remember the most was in Cabo, on a bus with Ariels being shot and you and I were just hanging out on a bus all day. Chit-chatting having fun talking about movies, talking about our experiences. We had both been production [00:04:00] assistance in our, you know, production careers. So we'd sort of both started not working on the same projects, but, but in the, the same capacity on project, And just found a kismet situation of finding each other and like-minded people and the, the conversation has not stopped since.
[00:04:15] So it's been phenomenal.
[00:04:17] Cris: It's been true. There's two things. I'll add the other story I was hoping you would tell, cuz I always love hearing. It is one of the first days we were actually working together when we were in Colorado, it was during prep and we were, we had, were part of the advanced team for a couple days.
[00:04:31] And you had arranged some sort of a meeting at the airport cuz we had to shoot in the airport as these shows do because the young men who were gonna go on spring break to Cabo, had to fly through the airport. So we wanted to shoot that part of the journey. And I don't know what I was doing, but it was probably planning of some sort.
[00:04:47] I don't know. But I made, I think you were
[00:04:49] Carl: doing a schedule, you were doing one of your schedules and I just remember now something else to note just to, to give some backs. I am notoriously late. Okay. That is just part of my [00:05:00] DNA. It just happens. I get distracted with stuff. However, on this day I knew it was very important to be on time with the airport connection, cuz we needed to shoot at the airport.
[00:05:10] And if I wasn't there on time, I didn't know how that would affect being able to get that clearance at the airport. So I just remember coming into the production office when, and you were on the, the laptop and I'm like, Chris, we gotta go. We, we have to go like right now, So that we're on, on board, cuz if anyone's ever been to Denver international airport, it's 30 miles outside of town.
[00:05:31] And we were in Boulder. We, we were north of, of Denver. So it's like, and this I was even before cell phone smart phones, when you had maps and all that, I know I had looked at like map quest to figure out how long it was gonna take. Like we gotta go. Now we gotta go. Now we gotta go. You were like, I'll be done in a minute.
[00:05:47] I'll be done. I'll be done in a minute. Five minutes would go by and I would be like, we have to go. We have to go. We have to leave right now. I'm almost done. I'm almost done. And so by the time you were ready to go, I realized we are gonna have [00:06:00] to like I, and I'm driving. I'm like we have to speed. I gotta, I just gotta get there as fast as possible down this like straightaway.
[00:06:07] It's like a race track to, to get to Denver and national opera and not much traffic at that point was on there. I think the airport had only fairly recently opened. It was PR pretty new. So I just remember being on this straightaway, like. Flooring it trying to get to the airport on time. Ooh. I'm like, oh no.
[00:06:23] And we get pulled over and I just remember turning, I just turned to you and I'm like, this is your fault. Meanwhile, I'm the one speeding. I like, I probably could have just left. You know what I mean? I was like, no, Chris has to come on the scout with me. We have to do the scout together, but I don't even remember.
[00:06:40] Did I get a ticket? I can't remember if I got a ticket or a warning thing. I might have gotten a full on ticket. Um, I think you
[00:06:45] Cris: gotta change it because then you turned to me and said, you owe me money. That's right. That's right. Cause that's and I think I laughed the entire way. Um, so sorry. And, and I don't think I ever paid you
[00:06:56] Carl: for it.
[00:06:57] and I will say, uh, you still owe [00:07:00] me, but even though I think we were not exactly on time for this, for it ended up working out. And in fact, on the day of the shoot, when we were actually shooting at the airport with our cast, something happened with our airport liaison. So the airport liaison was late on the day that, that we were supposed to be there and we had never anticipated shooting anything outside of the, the terminal.
[00:07:21] Like I remember the cast, like running backwards, the wrong way on one of those walking, moving walkways. And for whatever reason, the, the airport liaison, when he finally got there, said, Hey, do you want to go out on the tarmac? And I'm like, yeah, yes, I do. To be able to see the airplane go. So I took one of the camera crews.
[00:07:39] We went down to the tarmac and so, so it all worked out. It all worked out and, and I. Know that I'd ever been on a tarmac before, other than doing, uh, but from getting off of a, a small plane, like at, at Burbank airport. Yeah.
[00:07:51] Cris: But I think both you and I have a pretty optimistic outlook when we engage with others that we're trying to get to let us do the things we [00:08:00] wanna do.
[00:08:00] And I'm not talking in a manipulative way. I'm talking like we go to an airport or location. Um, I think if you're just open with people and very communicative and get people laughing, you tend to get things. That like opportunities open up for you. And I think that's important. You don't have to be, you have to be on time and you have to, or relatively, and hopefully have an excuse if you're not.
[00:08:21] Yeah. If you're not. And I believe we had them laughing about why we were late. If I remember correctly, like that's where we, I started to learn that you and I had a very similar sense of humor. I think. I mean, I'm not as pun as you are, but then again, it's pretty hard to be as pun as, as
[00:08:39] Carl: Carl, the, the award-winning pun person that I am, because I have won a pun competition.
[00:08:43] Yes. Yeah. Very proud of that
[00:08:45] Cris: fact, by the way. Oh, I know you are. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I think, you know, every time somebody goes, Hey, I met Carl and whatever, like the connection I go, oh, well, every time we do, we, we just laugh and we laugh and laugh and, and we make getting our work [00:09:00] done. I think faster that way actually, and more fun
[00:09:03] Carl: and enjoyable.
[00:09:04] Absolutely. I, and I think that's a really big, big part of it too. It's not only does, does our personality lend itself? To when you're out in the real world, having to convince people to do this thing. I think on the movie, we, we could tell people what the movie was. Whereas I've worked on shows when I was working on the first season of trading spouses, I had assigned this nondisclosure agreement, um, that was worth.
[00:09:26] I think only a million dollars at that point. Now they're up to like five or 10 or, I mean, it's the ridiculous amounts of, of these NDAs that are it's. Yeah. Like I have that amount of money, but I remember not being able to tell anyone what the show was. And so you have to figure out like this script almost.
[00:09:42] Okay. Here's a, a reality television show, family oriented television show, um, about families. And we're gonna bring some families in and everyone's like, oh, that, that sounds great. And it wasn't like I was lying to anybody. I just couldn't actually tell them the show and trading spouses is a, is a salacious [00:10:00] title that I think that's the thing from, um, Mike Darnell, that he was good about the salacious titles when he was at Fox.
[00:10:05] And he just figured out when you have personalities, like, like ours, that mesh, you know, and we have good senses of humor and we can get people laughing when you're out in the real world and having to do that, doing locations in any capacity, it becomes really helpful to do that. Cuz you're dealing. Real people who are not in the entertainment industry, sometimes all over the world would like you helped me get on a amazing race.
[00:10:25] Cris: Yeah. It, I think I came to it this way. I'm assuming you did too. I think there's a certain flexibility within our personality where we're like, oh, okay. So that that's not gonna happen the way we plan, how do we make it work? And I think in that sense, it's a very good tool to have when switching over to independent filmmaking, there's a goal or, or a story you're trying to tell, and there is a way to achieve it.
[00:10:48] Even if you don't have all the resources you think you need.
[00:10:51] Carl: Absolutely. Yeah. It's a, it's a transferable skill set for sure. I always, you know, I teach production management, high school kids and, and to some classes where I always [00:11:00]tell everybody the basics of production building blocks of production, no matter if you're doing a reality show, an independent film, a major.
[00:11:07] Feature film, like any level, like I've worked on ABC news, documentaries, and, um, I've worked on big budget features like the perfect storm and all, every aspect of production. The building blocks remain the same. Obviously one more when there's more budget things kind of change. Everybody has a certain things, obviously in, in independent film, you have a script in reality shows you don't always have a, a script.
[00:11:29] You more have the concept and you're trying to fit it in. But yeah, I, I think you're absolutely right. I think you're absolutely right about that.
[00:11:34] Cris: So I think it's interesting that both of us, so I used to sneak on the sets and I grew up in Mexico city and most listeners will know that. Now, if they've been listening, um, for a while, if you've just tuned in, I don't sound like it, but I grew up in Mexico city.
[00:11:48] I was born in the us, but I lived there from one to 19 and there was a house by mine that they used to film a lot of big budget. American films would come down because it was cheaper to film in Mexico in the eighties. And [00:12:00] I snuck onto missing the set for missing. I met. Jack lemon there. I snuck onto the set for volunteers.
[00:12:06] I met Tom Hanks and it wasn't necessarily about meeting the movie star for me. It was about making my way on the set to watch how it was done. And I was, I think I was nine or 10 on the set of a may of TV movie that like was there for like two weeks. And I would come every day and find a director's chair and sit in it.
[00:12:26] And I think the second or third day, the ad and the director kind of walked up to me cuz they didn't understand who this kid was. But yet again, I wasn't making a. So, like, I was like fascinated by what was going on. Sure. And they grilled me in a really funny way, you know, like, well, what are you doing here?
[00:12:43] And who are, you know, I'm like, I just wanna learn. And it's like, you know, and this, this little kid, you know, who I had found, what I wanted to do, and I saw close encounters of the third kind and all of a sudden it was in my backyard, but I always loved when we met on that bus. That's the conver that's where the conversation went.
[00:12:58] You grew up in Beverly, [00:13:00] Massachusetts. Yeah. Tiny community. And before you even graduated, high school made your way onto a David mammo film, didn't you, or somehow you. Made your way onto the films as a PA before most PAs get hired. So why don't you tell us that journey? Cuz I always found it fascinating.
[00:13:15] Sure.
[00:13:16] Carl: Yeah. So the story I like to tell is my first real introduction, other than going to a movie and, and watching et which I was a, you were a close encounters fan. I was an et family, both Spielberg. Films. Right. But growing up with Spielberg movies and, and watching them, I don't know that I understood that a movie got made at that point.
[00:13:34] I was just being presented this thing. And when I was about 10 or 11, this be Hollywood movie came to my hometown. And I grew up in a very, a small neighborhood of Beverly called Beverly farms. Very, a wealthy enclave. Lots of John Updyke lived there. We didn't have any money at the time, but this movie came, we were, we were living on this small street called vine street.
[00:13:56] Um, and it was one block away from the main street. And this [00:14:00] movie came and parked their trucks on vine street. So I could literally sit on my front step and watch the prop guy with his smoke machine. It was like a chainsaw sound with smoke coming out. I'm like, whoa, that's pretty cool. And seeing these.
[00:14:14] Just unload all this equipment, which was fascinating to me as a kid. And so I wandered over to our, our main street in Beverly farms there very small, quaint main street where they were turning a, a print shop into a barber shop and the art department was there and they had a, a clear jar of liquid. Um, and somebody said, does anyone have any blue food coloring?
[00:14:35] You know, the art department, just like talking to each other, like who has the da? And I just said, I do. And. So my mom's kitchen grabbed some blue food coloring, ran it back to them and watched them as they put the blue food, coloring into the, the clear jar liquid, and turned it into what looked like Barb saw, like what you would see in a barber shop.
[00:14:53] And my mind was blown. I was like, whoa, what is that? You can do that. And that's when I [00:15:00] discover, I'm like, oh, this is something that I really want to do. You know, I don't know if it was like the conscious thought of my career's gonna be in the movie industry, but it was, it really was fascinating to me.
[00:15:09] And I was an extra in it, you know, a background performer, although all my scenes got cut from the movie itself, being a part of that experience. Was so exciting for me, it really did spark that interest so much so that there was a, a article on our local cable access TV show, uh, or TV station that my mom clipped out for me.
[00:15:29] And I said, oh, I wanna do that. So by 12 years old, I was learning how to run live camera for our local cable access. And I remembered very clearly my first day running this camera, holding the, the arms of the tripod and my leg itched. And I was terrified to like, go of this camera. Right. So just to be able to itch my leg, but I was, I loved it all.
[00:15:47] I, I was like a sponge, just learning. I was. Learning to switch on a switcher. I was directing shows for like our live public access stuff when I was really, really young. So when the Massachusetts film office, there [00:16:00] was a story about the Massachusetts film office in the Boston globe, that again, my mom clipped off and, and showed to me, there's a hotline at the time, cuz this is pre-internet.
[00:16:08] Um, you couldn't go to a website to find stuff up, but there were recorded messages of where you could get production jobs in Massachusetts. And that's where you as a crew person would know what was coming to town and where to get a job. Um, so I just, I was listening one day and there was a movie called house sitter coming to town.
[00:16:24] I knew nothing about it. It just was. There's a movie coming. Here's the address? And you write to this person, a, a person named Michelle Wright, who, who I'll talk about in. In one second, about something that literally just happened to me last night with her. And she's been a mentor now, my, my whole life, which amazing.
[00:16:40] She's an amazing human being. But so I wrote a letter in handwriting to this person, to Michelle saying I'd like to volunteer. I'm really interested in the film industry. Um, and can I be a part of, of that production? And so I got a call a few weeks later from her and she said, unfortunately, you cannot volunteer on this set.
[00:16:59] [00:17:00] However, we would like to hire you as a production assistant. Uh, but there were, because I was at, at that point, I was 14 years old. Okay. Actually, yeah, I was 13 when I got the call, I turned 14, cuz it was that, that following summer that, that the movie was shooting. But I had to go through like medical exams with my doctor because as an underaged kid working on a, a film set, I could only work eight hours a day.
[00:17:22] There were all these, these rules. They, they went through all. I mean, I now know in my career what it takes to hire somebody who's really young and there's all sorts of things. You have to do that. They went through that for me. They didn't have to do that. And the remarkable thing about all of it was every person on that set was incredibly nice.
[00:17:41] Steve Martin, Goldie Han. The, um, the ad department who I became very close to cuz I was a PA right. I was part of that department. Um, James w scotch depo was our first ad. Um, and he had been the first ad on days of thunder, a number of other things, Donald Jay Lee, and was our second ad. Um, and Don [00:18:00] has gone on to be executive producer of the greatest showman.
[00:18:02] And Jimmy went on to produce, um, the exec producer of the Revant. And I mean, it's like these people that did not have to be nice to a kid who I know I was a burden on that set. I was not just sort of like a, oh, that kid's totally helpful and will do whatever we said. Like I was my first real job and I'd been a paper, boy, you know what I mean?
[00:18:20] Like, I didn't know what I needed to do. And they're like, okay, Carl, you're gonna be an extras holding tonight. My very first day on this job, you're gonna be an extras, holding, watching all the extras bags while they're on set, doing their thing. And I'm like, okay. And I remember there was a window that I could see the set I could look out and watch Steve Martin and Goldie H walk on this walkway in, um, Boston.
[00:18:40] And I was, I always in. I loved it. They gave me responsibilities at first, like, okay, Carl, you're gonna go lock up that street and make sure traffic doesn't, you know, traffic doesn't drive down the street who is gonna stop for some 14 year old kid in a headset. Nobody stopped for me. They're like, okay. Uh, now go into that jewelry store and just make sure they stay quiet.
[00:18:58] I'm like, okay. And I just did. [00:19:00] I just did whatever. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. That trajectory for me started when I was 10. Um, and you had referenced to the David Mannock movie that actually happened the summer between college and, and moving out here to Los Angeles, but there weren't many things being shot in Massachusetts at that time now because of tax credits, um, that have been passed as a direct result from a magazine publisher friend of mine who wanted more business to come to the state, Carol Patton, also another amazing human being.
[00:19:28] There's tons of production there now. Like I, I was working at a time when maybe it was one crew deep, maybe one and a half, if you got lucky, but like now, like people have moved to, to Massachusetts in order to be in production. I, I find it amazing. That's the
[00:19:41] Cris: case. That's so cool. I just love that origin story.
[00:19:45] Were you but you're, I was a kid from
[00:19:47] Carl: Massachusetts who, like, I had no tied to this business whatsoever. Right. And here it is being delivered to me. Yeah,
[00:19:53] Cris: no, I mean, neither did I, I mean, my first paid gig was being an extra cause that's what they were called back then. I now it's background artist, [00:20:00] but for, for total recall, which was shot in Mexico city and I was an extra, my best friend.
[00:20:05] Three of my brothers, if you watch the film and there's that, that really cool top shot of the scientists walking on that walkway. And the main thing, those one of those guys is my brother. Jeff,
[00:20:15] Carl: can you see you in the movie? Are you, are you
[00:20:17] Cris: seen in it? Yeah. I'll, I'll tell you. Yes. I'm the person walking by the window while he's wrenching out Johnny cab.
[00:20:23] Like when he's destroying Johnny cab, I gotta go back and watch that. Now. Now the first time I was a background artist was for that movie, the week I told you about, and I, I spent all night at the Mexico city airport, cuz the movie was about a Sadat. The former was it prime minister in Egypt. I can't remember that he got assassinated and that that's what the, the film was about his life in that moment and stuff.
[00:20:43] And they were using the second. Mexican presidential plane. They'd gotten access to, to, to shoot a scene where Anwar came to Israel, which was the first time I think that had happened between the two countries and that's what they were documenting or whatever. And I was out in the cold with a little flag and my brother had told me to wear a skirt, [00:21:00] cuz my brother had come home and he was an extra in it and he's like, they need people come with me.
[00:21:04] And so I was cold and I was annoyed cuz my da brother had told me to wear a skirt and hadn't told. Bring something warm and it's three in the morning and I'm 10 or 11. And they, my brother, John and my brother, Jay, they had gotten these prime featured extra. Like they were playing reporters by the jet way.
[00:21:19] And I remember getting really annoyed between shots or whatever they were doing. And like, it was taking a long time and I like stood up out of my thing, like marched up to my brothers and I was yelling at 'em and I was like, you told me I didn't. Sweater and I'm cold and right. And, uh, and, and then I started backing away from him and I smacked right into the ad, the first ad and the director was with him.
[00:21:40] And of course they remembered me. I'd been hanging out on set for like two weeks when they were in my neighborhood. And so the ad's like, what are you doing? Here? I go, my brother's. They brought me. And he is like, and, and he goes, well, why are you? Cause he could tell, I was annoying. He goes, why are you annoyed?
[00:21:53] And I go, cause they told me this, they made me wear a skirt and you know, and they were, I could see it. I, I remember I can see their face right now. [00:22:00] They were, they wanted to bust out laughing cuz this little 11 year old kid he's like, and he goes, you wanna get back at him? And I go, yeah. He goes, go up those stairs and sit in that window.
[00:22:10] And so he put me in a window in the plane and I, I got to see like the bathroom was like a gold toilet, which was super weird. And I'd never seen before
[00:22:18] Carl: you were on the Mexican president's plane,
[00:22:21] Cris: you know, so I didn't get paid, but I got that. But yeah, like you it's just, you fall in love with it. How could you not?
[00:22:27] And I always knew. I was gonna live in LA. I always knew I was gonna move here and live in LA and, and work in movies. I mean, it, I didn't get to work production in the sense that you did before moving to LA. Um, because I move, I went to college by the time I was 18. Hi Bobby. That's my cat for the listeners.
[00:22:47] Um,
[00:22:47] Carl: I'm just glad that's on your side. I thought someone was screaming in my house for a second. I was like gonna take my headphones off. Hey
[00:22:54] Cris: Jack. No, this
[00:22:55] Carl: is Bob. Hi. Oh, that's Bobby. I'm so sorry. This is Jack's
[00:22:58] Cris: brother. Hi Bobby. [00:23:00] No that's okay. And for those who visually would like me to identify him he's orange and he has a green collar and his brother Jack is also orange and he wears a purple collar and they have a little brother who is a black cat who is named Chadwick Posman.
[00:23:13] So everyone, you may or may not hear them as you just heard Bobby voicing, uh, his presence. So, but follow them on Instagram. Well, they don't have an actual
[00:23:23] Carl: Instagram on your Instagram. I follow that. I mean, that's the . Yeah.
[00:23:26] Cris: If you follow me, you will get a dose of reels every once in a while. And sometimes photos, usually in the stories, you, if they're funny or they've done something, I will post
[00:23:36] Carl: it.
[00:23:36] The tail's wrapped around your shoulder right now.
[00:23:39] Cris: They're my lover boys, and yes, they are named after the Kennedy's Jack and Bobby. If anyone was one who's Chadwick named after, I wonder with a last name of Posman I'm gonna let the listeners figure that one out on their own. I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt that they can figure it out.
[00:23:53] He's he is my little black Panther. So
[00:23:55] Carl: when I was growing up, my parents, my, my mom specifically got some cats. [00:24:00] Mm-hmm got two cats and, you know, asked me to help name these. And so I name them Oscar and Emmy, because I, I can always say I've always had an Oscar and an Emmy, whether I actually won one in the business or not.
[00:24:14] I had, this is when I was much younger. So we, I always say like my first Oscar and Emmy were my cats. I
[00:24:19] Cris: love that. Conversely, I did win an Emmy and then I named her Mitch. I've never named this
[00:24:24] Carl: one. That's, that's interesting where Emmy, like, as kids, I don't know that I was like, I'm gonna win an Emmy someday.
[00:24:30] Like I just don't know that I ever truly imagined that what that was gonna be like. Um, but now us talking about what our production backgrounds are and being, you know, kids learn learning about this industry and just witnessing my family would make fun of me. I, there would be a film set. We were in New York city on a college tour.
[00:24:46] Try, I think I was touring NYU and I found out, um, oh, too long. Fu is shooting on this block over here. And I found that out. I stood on that block for hours watching. And my mom and cousin were so bored. They're like, [00:25:00] oh, we're gonna go shopping. We're gonna go over here. And I was perfectly content. Just being in that environment, it's like love, right.
[00:25:07] It was just this love, that seeped into me. And I just couldn't let it go. You know, I was an extra in Goodwill hunting and a civil action in all these movies. Like, it didn't matter what I was doing. I, I would happily be a PA or an extra, just to be around a film set because I loved it so much. I just, I knew I just knew that's what I, what I wanted to do.
[00:25:27] Cris: Yeah. I think that's what, on that bus in Cabo, we found like a kindred spirit. That's the word you can
[00:25:34] Carl: exactly. Kindred spirit is exactly
[00:25:36] Cris: it. And a friend that you always knew you could call and go, Hey, this, this just happened. I just saw this movie said or whatever it was. And neither of us ever judged each other, we were like, we were more like, oh, that's amazing.
[00:25:47] What else? You know, or I've written the script. Do you wanna read it? Yeah, let me read it. You know, I can, like, I remember after writing those TV scripts and working my way. Like I, I worked at a, I had three jobs at [00:26:00] one point I was at a coffee shop called aroma up in the valley. I was just there this past week.
[00:26:04] Oh, cool. Mark's awesome. The owner, I run into him every once in a while throughout the town. As, as I like to call Los Angeles, the town, small town, not Boston. right. It's a different town, different town, both have Ben different towns and different Ben
[00:26:17] Carl: Affleck. Let's be honest.
[00:26:19] Cris: very true. And this, my dear listeners is what Carl and I will do for hours.
[00:26:24] If someone doesn't stop us. Anyway, so I, I did that. I worked for a neon company that did a lot of the neon for different films. And I ended up, like, I found myself on the set of Batman and Robin. because we did all the neon for New York street during what, whatever scene that Mr. Freeze came with his car, you know, so I wasn't on the crew, but I got to be there cuz I had to, I like I'm like, no, no, no.
[00:26:47] Send me, send me all monitor to the neon because I wanted to watch, I wanted and I wanted to meet and I think I met a couple of grips and electrics cuz I was trying to weasel my way anyway. Like I was like, do I go into the electric union? Do I like, I was [00:27:00] just trying to figure out because you get here without knowing anyone really, and you just gotta find a foothold.
[00:27:04] And, and then I, I also worked for a company called S that did the, um, the red carpet setups. And I don't know if they're still around, but for years and years and years, they were the main company you called
[00:27:15] Carl: for that. They're not around anymore. I actually didn't know. For S cuz one of my best friends, Dan worked at S and I've shot one of my 48 hour films in the carpet warehouse of S using red carpets.
[00:27:27] Crazy. I
[00:27:28] Cris: never knew that every time I watched that short every once. So because every couple years maybe you'll post there or whatever. I'm like, that's familiar now. I know why
[00:27:36] Carl: carpet DM. It was carpet DM. And we shot in that. We actually, we shot T G F the musical in there as well. That was all in ALS. They had that room, there was like a special room in there where they had all the lighting just tested.
[00:27:47] Yeah. Yeah. You could do all the thing. And so we were able to shoot that stuff. I, I really had no idea really less. That's crazy. I love that. We found that out right now. Yeah.
[00:27:54] Cris: Right now. Cause doesn't matter how long your friends, you always got room to learn, you know, so those are the three [00:28:00] jobs I had after cuz when I first moved here and I think, you know, this.
[00:28:03] I had an internship with a company called Intervision that did, um, special effects in camera. It was like a mirror system in camera that would've competed with computer CGI, but they came out just a little too late in CGI developed much faster. And I think anyone understood it would, but the job went away.
[00:28:21] I landed. And the next day I got a call and they're like, we don't need you anymore. And when my roommate came back, cuz I was, I had come and the person I was gonna stay with was the receptionist there. She said, oh, don't worry about it. They're getting an audit. It's not, you they're getting audited. They can't bring audit any new people.
[00:28:37] But what it left me, there was, this was supposed to be my last credits for grad school to graduate with my master's. And so I lost it right first day, I'm here and I'm like, I'm not going back. I finally made it to LA. I'm not going back. I need to figure this out. I'm not calling my advisor. I'm not calling my parents.
[00:28:53] I don't. I mean, it depends on who you are. Please call people. If you think you need help, I'm not, this is not advice to not [00:29:00] call your parents. This is what I did. It could have been right. It could have been wrong in that instance, but what I needed to do was not contact anyone and figure out how to find another job that was gonna do the same thing and keep me here.
[00:29:12] So I think about two weeks later, my roommate found backstage. Do you remember backstage? I do west and all that. Absolutely. So this was before the internet and, um, backstage west was a, a publication where you in the back of it, you could find listings for PA jobs, movie jobs, any other kind of jobs and universal studio.
[00:29:31] Had a, an ad there that they were interviewing for their summer staff for the, um, theme park. And of course my degrees were in technical theater. So it's kind of close to a theme park. I mean, most of it's theater, you know, they've got the live shows and stuff like that. Water world is really a live theater show with special effects.
[00:29:46] And I went and showed them my portfolio. So I was the most experienced summer worker they'd probably ever seen come through there. Cuz most of the people, there were 16 with pimples on their face, looking for their first summer job to [00:30:00] say welcome to the park. And um, they saw that and they said, you need to go talk to Sam.
[00:30:04] And so I got a, a thing into the park because the interviews were not inside the park and I walked through it and went up to Mulan Rouge. The French quarter, there was actually offices inside of there and met with this man called Sam, who was the entertainment technical manager. And he's like, I do need a U you're gonna work for water world for two weeks.
[00:30:21] And then you're going to, I'm gonna. You approved and then you'll be my assistant and we'll pay you and you'll get credit. And it, it just, it turned out even much better than I could have ever imagined. Even at the special effects house, to be honest,
[00:30:33] Carl: because you were, were prepared. Yeah. For, you know what I mean?
[00:30:35] Like you went in with the, the drive to want to do it first and foremost, but prepared cuz you had the stuff that they needed. You didn't know that, but you were doing what you thought you needed to do and that's
[00:30:45] Cris: how it worked out. Yeah. Well also it's like, it's like you writing the woman. I can't remember her name, but the woman about your job, Michelle.
[00:30:52] Yeah. When you were telling me that you're like that's it's essential ask, go after ask the worst thing people can say is [00:31:00] no. Yeah. That's not a bad thing. It's just not, that's not the right thing for you then. And you might actually make a friend in that or somebody who's your fan, you know, or somebody who becomes a mentor, you showing that initiative.
[00:31:10] I'm sure when they saw that letter, they're like, oh, we need to help this kid look at. Look at this initiative, Sam was like, look at this initiative, cuz I told them I was very, and I've always been open to my detriment sometimes, but yeah, I lost this job. I really need this. I need to graduate da da, you know, and, but they saw that I also came prepared and then I did that for six months and left when it was time for me to leave there and did graduate.
[00:31:32] Then I, because of people I'd met while doing that in S and the neon company, I got those two jobs, but of course those are, we need you for a day this week or that week. And that's why I got the, the coffee shop job. But I ended up getting my first PA job through someone who worked at the bookshop in that coffee shop.
[00:31:48] The, the owner of that. Bookstore that owner of that bookstore's husband ran a production company and she got me an interview with, because I showed initiative and I
[00:31:56] Carl: think, and interest. Yeah. Right. You showed interest that's, that's how it works. [00:32:00] Show
[00:32:00] Cris: people, interest and passion and a little bit of initiative.
[00:32:02] And it takes you so far and be willing to, yeah, I don't know. I guess I never saw being a PA as something low. I never saw. I just saw it as a learning
[00:32:10] Carl: experience. I've and now my, my day job, um, as you, you well know Chris, but so I'm the head of production for Fox sports, original programming. And I've done every production job from PA up to this executive job now.
[00:32:24] And I understand the importance of everybody on those shows like PAs are important positions. They're not just throw away, you know? Yeah. They may be lower level lower. Maybe lower stress. You don't have as much responsibility, but you get to learn so much. You get to learn what you want to do. But it's part of like cogs in, in a big machine.
[00:32:45] The machine doesn't work. If some of those cogs are missing and you are one of those cogs, when you are a production assistant, no matter what you're doing on a show, you are one of those cogs. And that's when you're on a production, when you're on a film, whatever it is, everybody's working [00:33:00] together, right?
[00:33:00] So these cogs all interconnect, um, in various ways so that the, the show can happen. And so it can actually get made. So I'm a hundred percent with you on that. And I think a big part is from having done that job from understanding what that job is. And knowing what it takes to do that, because I think there's a lot of people that maybe don't go through that be being a PA that then have to somehow manage those positions that think otherwise, or may have never done it.
[00:33:26] And don't understand.
[00:33:27] Cris: Yeah. I value that I've done so much and that I understand all of those pieces and the value of all those people. And I think part of what I got, what, what got me on this too, was to show that you and I also like we, we started on this journey to be in movies, to, to work in movies and, and probably narrative mostly in our mind.
[00:33:46] And then we wound up on these kind of divergent courses and unscripted to me is still storytelling. And I know that you believe that too, but I also think it's made us better narrative storytell. Now that we've gone through this journey a
[00:33:59] Carl: hundred [00:34:00] percent. Yeah. It's a, what you, when you were just talking about sort of the communication between the, the different departments and what it takes when you do it.
[00:34:07] I only learned that by working in reality television, right. That was sort of where our jobs were. Reality TV is what brought you. And I, I never wanted to be in reality TV. It's not something I like was like, ah, this is something I wanna do. It was where the jobs were at the time when I first moved out to LA and it was, oh, okay, well, I'm not doing the thing that I wanna be doing, um, which is film, but I'm getting paid to be in production.
[00:34:33] And I'm okay with that. I'll let you know, do those jobs. Meeting amazing people and, and making, you know, really amazing friendships through that. Um, but also meeting collaborators that then I would take into the films that I would. Right. And sort of, and, and I may be a little unique in, in being a, a timed filmmaker being a, a 48 hour filmmaker or someone who's made a lot of these film challenge or competitive filmmaking is the way I like to look at it.
[00:34:59] That a [00:35:00] lot of people in reality TV were the same as me. They came out to be in film and they wanted to do film. So then I'm like, oh, director of photography doing reality, your stuff looks amazing. And, oh, you're really fast. Would you want to come for this weekend and, and shoot this narrative film. And a number of the people that I've worked with in reality are unscripted.
[00:35:19] Think of scripted this holy grail of thing, or really what they really want to be doing in reality is the job or unscripted is the job. And they want credits. They want the credits, they want stuff for their. They want it to look good and they're exceptionally talented. They can do it in any environment.
[00:35:34] I always say, when you do unscripted, when you do reality, you can do anything at that point. Cuz I think it's much harder to go back to go. The other way from scripted to reality becomes a, a bigger challenge, um, for a lot of people. Whereas when you're in reality, you're much more flexible. Um, and you can roll with things more.
[00:35:50] At least I found in my
[00:35:51] Cris: experience, no, I think I that's a hundred percent I spent, I think I did 11 seasons in the amazing race. Try being in the middle of an aisle on a tiny [00:36:00] little island called crocodile island in the middle of the night for a checkout of the teams. And you discover they've stolen. All of your lights, the crocodile have stolen all your lights.
[00:36:09] Yeah. All the crocodiles. I think it. Two by petal people, but it wasn't crocodiles. But yeah, somebody busted into the storage where we had been told that everything would be protected at the very least the mat and the, the name of the place was still there. But the lighting, like the was gone, that we'd had.
[00:36:28] And so, you know, you quickly go bring that car around, bring that car around, put the lights on, put your lights on, you know, like all of it and you get it done and you shoot it. And everything's beautiful. And. Couple months later, it's on TV and you can point to that and go, that's
[00:36:44] Carl: a story. And nobody outside of that knows that they just see what's being presented.
[00:36:48] But yeah,
[00:36:49] Cris: you're absolutely right. And to me, I always found, especially on the race, that the episodes that were the most chaos for crew, where we were racing. To the finish [00:37:00] line, like racing the teams to the finish line, to be ready or racing to get whatever event was ready before they arrived. Or we lost track of someone for half a second to be the ones that had the best energy.
[00:37:13] Once you saw them on TV, like the one, the episodes that. Everything went right? Because it is one of the most planned out is because you did work season of it. It's one of the most planned out shows out there because it has to be logistically. It is. I would defy anyone to show me a show that is more logistically challenging than the amazing race.
[00:37:32] And it does. And it did earn all of those Emmies. Am I happy to see other shows winning it too? Yes. I'm just saying every time the race wins, I'm sorry, hands down. It deserves it. I only, they round Rob, actually now it's even smaller. I think because of the academy made it smaller, the amount of producers that could be put on the list, but initially I think they could put 19 or 20 and they used to round Robin, us all in the ones that earned a place on there because it takes so many [00:38:00]producers to make.
[00:38:00] And it really does. It really is on screen and behind the camera, an amazing race.
[00:38:06] Carl: That's I talk about my experience. Amazing on that show. Truly. It was an amazing experience by the way, super quick. And I wanted to say Michelle Wright, right? Who, who was my mentor? So TV academy, you were just mentioning this.
[00:38:18] I feel this is a good segue TV academy sponsors these freer consideration events. Now, when you're a member of the academy, you get invited to, Hey, we want you to vote for us or come to this thing. So Bridger tin had a, had an event last night, not a favorite show of mine, but my wife loves that show and I submitted for it.
[00:38:34] And part of the experience is they show you an episode, right? Cause they want get you into the thing. Some of the cast was there, they're doing Q and a all this stuff, but they showed this episode and I'm interested. I'm like, oh, it's fascinating. And it's an amazing period piece. And they roll the credits at the end.
[00:38:48] Whose name do I see in the credits Michelle Wright. And I was like, that can't be the same, Michelle Wright. No, no way I go on IMDB. Sure enough. It's Michelle rap. I'm like I have to send her a note and go, how did [00:39:00] you, what were you doing on Bridgeton? Cuz she has a feature. Film person, like I've only ever known her.
[00:39:04] I never knew her to do television. So it was one of those full circle moments. Like I turned to my wife, I'm like, that's Michelle, what are the chances of that happening? It was just this random experience for me because I, you know, I had known that she was involved in something like that. But, you know, it's like now at my age, when I was 14, she hired me as a set intern as a PA on house sitter.
[00:39:23] And now she's still doing this kind of stuff. So you never know where all these sort of interactions are, are gonna
[00:39:28] Cris: take you. Yeah. I mean, that's amazing. I mean, I think I told you similarly of an interesting story where I'd a couple weeks ago gone to a big chill screening that was sponsored by the motion picture academy.
[00:39:39] And I'm like, wow, I, I wasn't watching it back then. Like, I am now as someone with as much experience to know what it takes to get a thing made, or when you really see an eye that's really spectacular for a shot or how they told that story shot selection and Lauren Kain did tonight, he wrote it. [00:40:00] Co-wrote it with a female.
[00:40:01] Screenwriter. And you can also see her footprints in it with all of the female characters. They're just com complicated and full, right? Every one of those characters and the credits are rolling, and all of a sudden it gets to location manager. There goes this name that's familiar to me. And it's Strat Lee upholded and a, it's an odd name.
[00:40:19] Like, of course you would remember that, but I'm like, huh. I wonder if this was one of his first films. He was the line producer on General's daughter in 1997 when I worked, uh, that was my very first big budget studio film that I was a, a PA on. And I came on as a day player for a week when they were doing tank work and tank work for the listeners who don't know is every studio here, or most of 'em have like an inundated part in.
[00:40:47] Studio that they can fill up with water and is usually some sort of a, a wall behind it. That's blue that you can do any number of things in whether it's open ocean or boats or whatever. [00:41:00]And General's daughter, they had taken apart an entire pier and shipped a boat and stuff from Savannah where they had shot mainly.
[00:41:08] And they were doing all the closeups and everything else here in LA, and they'd shipped it across to LA and they'd rebuilt it in the, they shipped the ship, they shipped the, they shipped the ship, um, and they'd rebuilt it in the paramount lot and covered it in blacks. So like huge tent around the, this tank, because it was all night shoots and in the, in this boat place.
[00:41:28] And so they needed extra bodies. And I got called in because the QPA was a friend of mine that I'd worked on independent features and I had kicked butt for him there. And so he like, this was him helping me get onto my first feature again. You network laterally and get to know people. Right? And so he brings me on, I kicked ass again.
[00:41:47] There's no other way to say it, but they kept me on for the rest of the LA shoot, which was a month and a half or two months. And I think they had one little bit to shoot up north in San Francisco and they almost took me. But, uh, last minute that they, uh, cut that PA [00:42:00] position for budget or whatever, but Stratton and Mac Newfeld, the producer on that, they decided to give me a screen credit.
[00:42:09] They had liked me so much on set. And so they, I started as a day player and ended up with my first screen credit.
[00:42:15] Carl: That's awesome. Full circle moment. Seeing the credit. It's one of those
[00:42:18] Cris: moments. Like I looked him up and he works at an ice cream, like his family's ice cream company in South Carolina. And I might reach out to him to see if he wants to be on the podcast, just cuz that would be cool to, you know, that would be awesome.
[00:42:29] I mean, I'm sure he is probably in his seventies or eighties if he's around and he wants to talk, I'll talk to him. I mean, that's a,
[00:42:34] Carl: I I'm using, seeing Michelle's name last night to reach out to her again. Cause I haven't talked to her in a while, you know, and as you grow up in this business and you may grow apart from people cuz you're not working with them, um, that you get reminded, you get these sent out from the universe, like.
[00:42:50] Don't forget this person. I'm like, oh yeah, I need to reach out to that person and just see what they're up to. Because a big part of this business, you know, I always tell people it's not about [00:43:00] who, you know, in this business, because you can know a lot of people, but if they don't remember who you are, it makes no real difference to, to them.
[00:43:07] It's really all about who knows. You right. And it's like fostering those relationships when you're on a set, right. Or you're working in a production office or working at a coffee shop. Right. It's those networking connections that fortify who you are, um, and also get you opportunity. That then, you know, it's really up to you, what you do with those opportunities, but you have to kind of foster the, the networking part is important just for that reason.
[00:43:34] Had you not kicked ass on those sets? People probably would've been like, not gonna hire Chris again, but you did. Right? And so you were able to then do it and then you can pay it forward. You are one of the primary reasons I got on the amazing race. You help get me that meeting and convince Elise to, to hire me when maybe that she wouldn't have done that otherwise, but it's because of our connection and our friendship that we pay it forward.
[00:43:59] That's the other thing too, [00:44:00] that I've really taken, um, from this business is people have given me an opportunity. I want to give other people opportunities. And obviously that's, that's a lot of why I work with people with disabilities who have not had opportunities. So how do you give people opportunity to do what they wanna do?
[00:44:15] Cause when that happens, Amazing things can come out of it. It's just really you'll have the more of those full circle, more of
[00:44:21] Cris: those full circle moments, firm believer, and you gotta reach back and you gotta help the next generation coming up because how else are they? Like you can't just let people flounder in a, in an ocean and you know, yes, there's YouTube, but your fountain of knowledge is so much more and is of so much more value to help that next person up.
[00:44:40] Or even your friend. Who's struggling with something like, I love helping my friends. I love helping that person coming up behind me. Is it, you hear somebody going, oh, I need a, I need an AP or I need a, a PA or do you know a grip and you just, I see it on social. And I am probably one of the first people who either, if [00:45:00] it's a tweet, I'll, there's a few people that I tweet when I see a writing room job, I need a script coordinator and half the time they're like, well, I haven't done that yet.
[00:45:08] And it says, you have to do it. And I go apply. Anyway, you don't know what they're looking for. You really don't. You're
[00:45:13] Carl: so good at that, Chris. You're so good at that reaching out and telling people when there's an opportunity and connecting those dots, right. Yeah. Which is producing and you're helping out people by having this podcast, that was one of your primary motivations for doing this, to give your knowledge to people.
[00:45:29] Cris: Yeah. And I'm in the middle of the hugest learning process I've ever gone on, which is to get my own film off the ground. And despite everything I know, I still have so much to learn and it's so fun. It is really fun. There's a roller coaster ride and there's ups and downs, but how fun is an actual roller coaster?
[00:45:47] Yes, that's right. Bobby, how fun is it? See Bobby agrees. It's a fun rollercoaster.
[00:45:53] Carl: I always think by the way, the inverse of roller coasters is really what we should be referencing because the fun part for me [00:46:00] is always going down and in real life, the going down isn't always the fun part. So, and the going up is, whereas I'm terrified of height.
[00:46:06] So going up is not very fun for me on a rollercoaster. So the inverse of a rollercoaster is the way I think about it. For
[00:46:13] Cris: some of us, it's a normal rollercoaster for some people who are like, Carl's, it's the inverse of a rollercoaster, whichever it is getting of it. It is climbing Mount Everest. And I have to keep each step right in front of me and not think about that summit because I'll never reach the summit if I don't do the steps.
[00:46:30] Right. You know, SSUS
[00:46:31] Carl: pushing that Boulder and constantly feeling like that is, it is a lot of hard work. It is not an easy, no matter what level you get to. Yes. Maybe some aspects of it can, can get easier, but it's still difficult and you're still learning. Like the fact that you're sharing your knowledge through this learning process for you is a gift, you know, and it's a gift for people to be able to be on that so that maybe they won't make the same mistake that you do.
[00:46:58] They'll make their own mistakes. [00:47:00] They'll make some other mistake that then they learn from that. Then they can teach other people. But it's about building up that knowledge base. And I just went through an experience, um, with a project that I was trying to get licensed and I'd never done anything like that before.
[00:47:14] I'd always worked on something that had been funded and that had funding from the get go. And it had distribution lined up, cuz working in TV, that's a big part of what happens. This was something that I found through a friend on YouTube and really one of my greatest friends now, Amica Lee, who would edit it, post it on her Facebook page.
[00:47:33] I'm like, what is that? She connected me to the, the producers. I'm like, this is a show that needs to be on television. And oh, if I only knew what, I didn't know when I started this process, it would've made it a much easier slog, but it's still ongoing and it's a. Learning experience. And that's, I think the biggest part about this business, because the other thing too, and I just wanna quickly say each project is different.
[00:47:56] Even if the building blocks of production are the same, like you may need a [00:48:00]donkey on that project, or you may need the Mexican president's airplane or like it's all totally different each project that you do. So the needs that you have on one thing may not be the same needs you. On the other thing, right?
[00:48:15] So a lone girl like needs stuff that, that your shorts haven't necessarily needed. Right. But then there is stuff of those building most that, that you've learned from, in order to take it to, to a lone girl. Well, yeah,
[00:48:25] Cris: it's, uh, there's two things in there. Every project's different and everyone's journey is different too.
[00:48:30] And I wanna really stress that because I do see a lot of, especially on like writer, Twitter, you'll get people asking how to do something or whatever. And I really want people to understand that is how that person, when they're telling you advice, that is how that person got to where they are or what they're up to the reality is that if you were to ask, fill this room, fill a room with a hundred people in the industry and went to ask each of them how they got to where they are.
[00:48:56] You are going to get a hundred different stories. The commonality is [00:49:00] probably that they networked somehow, but it's not, it's not that they did a job then left and did B job then wrote CS script, then got. S D job that's that is a road, but it's not necessarily gonna be the same for everyone to get to all those building blocks.
[00:49:17] Also on that roller coaster on that, like a lot of people I've had I've come close and you know this cuz I keep you informed. I've come close to getting the development funding for my film three times. Yeah. And I'm talking very, very close, very close. Yeah. And each of 'em have fallen apart for different reasons.
[00:49:35] The, the first one, because I, it became apparent that this is a marriage you have to get into for years and you've gotta know in your own gut, if it feels like this isn't gonna be the right marriage and you gotta walk away. If even if it hurts. Even if you think people are gonna look back and go, that's insane.
[00:49:52] Why did you do that? Because it wasn't gonna actually come to fruition. And if it did it, would've ended friendships and that's not worth it to me. A movie is [00:50:00] not worth ending friendships over, so I walk away, but I find you should play the
[00:50:04] Carl: theme song to you. Play the gamblers, your theme song to this, uh, to this part,
[00:50:09] Cris: this section, then we, we got.
[00:50:12] With friend who, who had a group of friends, that they would pull their money to invest. And it came down. There's several of them that are interested. And then Nope, the last minute. And then there was a man who, another friend of mine introduced, uh, me to this guy who had a lot of Bitcoin, which of course, I think the universe was watching out for me right now because listeners right as we are
[00:50:34] Carl: recording this, well, Chris bows lost like a trillion dollars.
[00:50:37] That's what my wife was saying. Last lost a trillion dollars in like the last few weeks. So this was
[00:50:41] Cris: a deal that was going on between September and February is when it finally fell apart. And we were gonna be doing what is basically a bridge loan using a shared Bitcoin wallet because there's now digital, there's now banks that will lend off of a, a, a wallet, a Bitcoin wallet.
[00:50:59] Although I [00:51:00] doubt that's happening right now, but
[00:51:01] Carl: may not be happening
[00:51:02] Cris: today. if we had gone into that deal, It would be me and my production that would've been on the hook for the money. It was the universe looking out for you, trust that the unit trust your feelings, trust your gut. But that deal the man who's super nice and still loves my project.
[00:51:17] He calls. And he is like, so my wife's divorcing me and she locked my assets. How did judge lock my assets that, how am I supposed to plan for that? How's any of us supposed to plan for something like that? That's falling apart for completely reasons. I could have never imagined, but you know what? Now I know to imagine those things to go feel good about something, but also know that it could fall apart.
[00:51:38] That
[00:51:38] Carl: by the way is a really good point that you just made because that investor who had that real life thing happening in, in his life, we all are going through that constantly. Whatever's going on in our real lives affect us. So even as a boss, right, when I'm managing people, I have to remember, Hey, I wanna get this project done.
[00:51:56] I need to get done this way. I'm still working with other people who have their own [00:52:00] lives. Going on simultaneously with all sorts of other things happening. So you can't control everything. You have to kind of relinquish a bit of that control and know everyone's doing the best job that they can. You hire the best people that you can to, to do that, to realize your vision, to, to do all of it.
[00:52:18] But you're still all human beings living through this human experience and going through stuff that you can't control, that you just can't do it like you, there was no way you could have anticipated that situation, Chris. And I guarantee you there's gonna have be of a hundred more of those things, which is why you really are pushing that Boulder up the mountain constantly.
[00:52:36] And making sure if it rolls down that way, I gotta make sure I go over there to catch it right. Constantly
[00:52:42] Cris: pivoting, but also the more I've understood, none of this has been a waste. I am so much more secure in talking about all of these things. And my knowledge base has risen up a thousand percent and.
[00:52:56] Any one of these things, somebody could classify as a failure and it's [00:53:00] not, it's a learning experience that is being added to my foundation towards my success. That's how I
[00:53:05] Carl: choose to look at it. Failure is inaction. Failure is not doing cause if you're actually doing it and you're learning from that experience, how could that be failure?
[00:53:15] It's okay. Maybe I just won't do that again. And that same kind of thing won't happen. Right? The failure is in the inaction. So I would just sort of tell all your listeners from my perspective, like just keep doing it. And you're a prime example of that, Chris. And I've watched your growth, not just from reading your scripts.
[00:53:34] Those have obviously they, they improve every time you write as well. But in your filmmaking, when you are making your shorts from Boza no. Right to, to it's big, it's it? You see the progression and the only way that you've grown, you did no filter too. Right? It's every step of the way. I've seen your growth as a filmmaker and as a storyteller.
[00:53:55] And it's awesome. I love seeing that. I love having been there. Just riding on that bus [00:54:00] with you in Cabo. As kindred spirits learn learning that. And now really seeing that progression to, to where you
[00:54:06] Cris: are today. I, I could turn around and say the same thing to you. I mean, every, so Carl, I don't know if you've figured this out at all, but he's a competitive filmmaker.
[00:54:16] very competitive. Very competitive. I am non-competitive but no. So Carl, I don't know when you star, you started years and years ago over a decade ago, right? Doing 48 hour film festivals. And I remember seeing the very first one, which was the, the first one I saw. And I don't know if it's your first one, it's the cell phone one, the hard sell.
[00:54:34] Carl: That was the very first one we did in 2005. Yeah. And that
[00:54:37] Cris: was, I mean, it's still, I think I watched it recently cuz you posted them all or something and it's still hilarious. It had a cell phone in the center of it or something like, but it. Or it was a guy using a phone, like a cell phone or something. I can't remember that then.
[00:54:50] Carl: Yeah. Then a, there was a rotary dial phone. Cause my friend happened to have an old rotary dial phone. Yeah.
[00:54:54] Cris: Yeah. But, um, and then you guys, you guys shot on a motorcycle, didn't you? You were crazy.
[00:54:58] Carl: Yeah. [00:55:00] That, but that experience it. I will tell you like that experience. I didn't know what I didn't know at that point, like we went into that weekend go.
[00:55:06] We're gonna make so. I would not recommend doing a motorcycle chase on the freeway. And that was by the way, with Josh gates, who is now a huge, I think he's on discovery channel with his show expedition, impossible. Like he's a, a known funny, and he was on this motorcycle. I have him in the middle of the freeway where he had figured out this number system with my friend, Kevin, who was the stunt double for Michael Vaccaro holding up like the number one meant Josh would pass holding up.
[00:55:30] The number two meant Kevin would pass a three. They would both fall be like they came up with a system in realtime traffic. Like I was in a convertible driving, a stick shift, which I hadn't driven since France, like trying to learn my friend's car. And the DP was next to me. It's one of those things I definitely learned from that experie.
[00:55:47] Not to do that again, cuz I was terrified. I was certain I was going to jail that day.
[00:55:50] Cris: But when I watched it recently, I was like, oh, he's doing a bowing. Like it just reminded me of that. Cuz Bowinger has that scene where just cross the freeway,
[00:55:59] Carl: just [00:56:00] keep going. And he is like, ah, I love
[00:56:02] Cris: that scene. I love that film.
[00:56:03] And if listeners, if you have not seen that film, when you are a filmmaker, just do yourselves a favor and watch it. There's so much real stuff in that. That he's pulling from reality, so much
[00:56:13] Carl: real stuff so much so that, and I don't know if you have the same experience. I get choked up when they are watching chubby rain at the end, and they're in the movie theater and it's the closeups on their faces, watching this ridiculous movie that they, we had just watched them make and they are in love.
[00:56:28] It's it is the feeling that I have. I relate so much to that. Yeah. That, and I, I agree. I love that song. That's that's the
[00:56:35] Cris: thing is like, I've been asked a couple times while, um, pitching my, pitching my film for, for financeers or people who might invest and they'll ask me what, what is the definition of success for you?
[00:56:46] And to me, it's gonna be sitting in a theater with a crowd, watching my film and hoping that some young woman. Or older woman, whoever it is sees themselves up on screen in my character or a man [00:57:00] sees themselves in there too. I don't care. But I mean, the lead character is a woman and she's single and she's in her fifties and she's going through late forties, early fifties.
[00:57:08] And she ends up her happy place being single. That's not normal for our film Canon. And like just the history of film. You don't really see that much. And that's why I'm doing it because I think we need to see more representation like that. I think we send women the wrong message from the very early on that, that they have to be in a relationship.
[00:57:29] And I'm not saying relationships are bad. I'm just saying it's also singles, not a tragedy. And it's also not a waiting. For marriage, right? It's a place it's a place for you to be happy in your life
[00:57:40] Carl: and writing from your experience, writing from your perspective, that again, you give people an opportunity to do that, or you take that opportunity, your yourself to do that, to show the world something totally different that you haven't seen that had been in this rotation of this is the way it's done.
[00:57:57] I've gone into pitch meetings where like, where's the love [00:58:00] interest. Where's this where's that, all that. And that's becomes a, a reason that then they would pick it up that people would then pick up these movies. So I think you're absolutely right. I think you, you have to put yourself out there too, and really write from your own perspective.
[00:58:13] If you write what as they say, or you write from your. You're gonna be able to show the world something totally different that they, they haven't necessarily seen before.
[00:58:20] Cris: Yeah. So back to me trying to compliment you.
[00:58:23] Carl: Yes. I'm all here, please. Yes. Keep going. Yes.
[00:58:25] Cris: So from, from hard sell all the way up to your latest films, which at a certain point, you got connected with the disability film challenge, but every one of your 48 hour film, like if you stack them up, they get better and better and better.
[00:58:39] And understanding that every single one of them has been made with the same constraint. So you're seeing real progress because the same constraints are on each of those. And some of them have gone on to screen at festivals where people have spent $15,000 and three weeks shooting their short or however long.
[00:58:58] And, and your, [00:59:00] your 48 hour film festival offering is up there too. And it deserves to be up there. It delights me every time. No, and every time I see that you've finished something and you're, and you know, I'm always sharing it cuz I, I love it when my friends succeed. And I know that those successes to you, just like with me, that's a piece of you putting yourself out there into the world, whereas our day jobs, which yes, you're an executive at Fox, but I would probably hazard you call it your day job.
[00:59:28] Cuz the 48 hour film festivals is where your heart is. Or anything else you're working on to try and get made is where your heart is and your passion is, but it, it exponentially gets better every time and now, which I absolutely love. And I think you and I were kind of on the same trajectory, thinking that we needed to focus on inclusion, but you've gone so far.
[00:59:47] And I learned so much from you about making sure that inclusion and diversity, isn't just about the able bodied or the people you can, you, or just the things you can see or the, or how people [01:00:00] identify. But it's also about people who might be missing a leg or people and, and, or were born without one. And they're just, you know, and you, and I believe in the same thing, it's like, if you have a character in your film, that's just a character that you CA look to cast somebody who has a disability, do it, make it your mission to.
[01:00:17] They don't, you don't have to write a disabled character to cast a disabled person.
[01:00:22] Carl: Exactly. You're you're not casting a disability. That's a big work that I do. Yeah. You're casting an actor. Exactly. Yeah. And in fact, you can go and look at a lot of the films. Our, um, filmmaking team is cultural Detroits and go to www.culturaldetroits.com.
[01:00:38] Google it cuz it's it's cultural and then Detroits, D E T R I s.com. Um, you'll see a number of these films where we don't even address disability as we've cast people with disabilities, but we don't address the disability at all. It doesn't matter to the character, right? It's like there, there Hollywood has made a living almost [01:01:00] off of giving accolade.
[01:01:01] To able bodied actors who are portraying a disability that they don't have, which has lent itself to there being not real authentic portrayals of disability. And, and I'm not saying you, you can't address disability. It's also, I think, important to, to do that as well. We just don't really, haven't done that in, in our work, but it's because we haven't seen it, that it isn't a thing that, that people think has been normalized.
[01:01:22] So then you have people with disabilities who wanna be actors or who wanna be in the industry and wanna edit, or be a director photographer, whatever it. Who aren't able to get an opportunity because people haven't seen it. They have this misconception based on the way Hollywood is portrayed disability, that things can't be done a certain way.
[01:01:39] And it just throw all that out the window because that's not real. It's not true. You look at the percentages. 25% of the population, the us population has a disability out of that. Um, 25%, less than 3% are seen on film and television screens. And out of that, 3%, a lot have been able bodied actors like 95% of those roles have gone to able bodied [01:02:00] actors portraying a disability they don't have.
[01:02:01] So where has there been any opportunity and it's getting over these misconceptions and no. Oh, it's more expensive. It's this? It's that? The other thing I recently watched forest gum, one of my favorite movies growing up, I loved forest gum and I watched it now through the eyes as a, as a real disability advocate at the way that film presented disability and talking to my friend, Scott, who is a wheelchair user, and we're writing a script for him to star in because he is not.
[01:02:29] Opportunities as a lead actor, he's a phenomenal actor and he's been in a number of projects that cultural try has done. He, we were having a conversation during one writing session. He's like how much more money did they spend making Lieutenant Dan's character, making Gary S's character, Lieutenant Dan, to be an amputee.
[01:02:47] They highlighted, I remember watching the behind the scenes and being amazed at how wow. They were able to remove an actor's legs and with visual. And put a table there when a table wasn't [01:03:00] there. And he is, imagine if they had cast somebody, uh, who was a real amputee, you would have, have to have done any of that stuff.
[01:03:05] How much more money did it cost to do so you see these things and think about the amount of training that somebody has to then go through, like a Daniel Day Lewis, right. To go and play the character in my left foot. How much more money does that cost? Right. So it's this misconception that people have, ah, it's gonna cost more.
[01:03:22] We're gonna have to hire an ASL interpret. For a death actor. That's ridiculous. It's like, why is that ridiculous? You hire people, you give accommodations to people all the time movie star can get like a double wide trailer to do it. Like how much more money does that cost. So it's just this warped thinking that is that's happened in, in the industry because it's this able bodied world that we've grown up in.
[01:03:42] And that's how the system
[01:03:43] Cris: was built. Well, it's not just that it's also so a film, like what was that rock film? It was like a, he, it was a burning building or something. And he played a vet net who had lost
[01:03:54] Carl: his leg. The amputee. Yeah. I forget the name of it, but yes, the rock was. Yeah. But, but
[01:03:58] Cris: the reason [01:04:00] if you dig into that, people tell you they had rock play.
[01:04:02] That character is because then they got their financing. So it's not even about, it's more expensive. It's how do we get this film financed? Oh, we've got the rock. Now people give you you money. Right? And I sit there and I go, how about the rock glaze? The sidekick character gets the film financ. And gives the chance to an actor who is in fact, an amputee from whatever war.
[01:04:25] I don't know if it was Iraq or
[01:04:26] Carl: if it was Afghanistan. Yeah. I don't remember. I never saw it. I ne I never
[01:04:29] Cris: saw it. I watched the behind the scenes where they were all oohing. how they digitally removed his leg and how he learned to somehow walk the way, you know, somebody with an amputated leg would walk.
[01:04:40] And I, I sit there and I'm like, or Brian Cranston in the wheelchair and in the upside, in the, yeah, with Kevin Hart. And I'm like, you play the Kevin Hart character and get somebody in a wheelchair to play the lead. And you put yourself out there and help a film get made with a disabled actor. Some sometimes.
[01:04:58] Yeah. [01:05:00] And I, and I appreciate that you watched Lieutenant Dan being, you know, horrified bit. I believe he was able bodied in the war scenes and then lost his leg. Never
[01:05:09] Carl: see his legs. I watched it very closely. You, he was shot from the waist up. You never see his legs. In that movie, you don't listen. You know, that amputees can have a prosthetic leg that look real by the way.
[01:05:23] I just want, you know what I mean? It's like, I have many friends who are pro you know, wear prosthesis. Oh no.
[01:05:28] Cris: So do I, I'm just saying there's certain. Yeah. There's there's sometimes when I see it and I go, oh, the character was super able bodied and they're, whatever it was. And they have a disease that puts them into a wheelchair.
[01:05:38] One thing when the character's completely in a wheelchair or has the amputation the whole time or. Whole other thing,
[01:05:45] Carl: guys, hold on. I gotta, I gotta counter, I gotta counter on that cuz with my friend, Danny, we've talked about this. Okay. Mm-hmm because he was able bodied and then had a, a debilitating accident, um, and became a wheelchair user.
[01:05:56] And so I was like, Danny, we should do something [01:06:00] where we digitally put your face on an able bodied double for something that happens before something. I mean, we it's totally conceptual. There's no actual, you know, idea yet that, that we're doing like. But then you do get the experience of having someone.
[01:06:14] And by the way, he has a standing wheelchair. He has a, a thing where he can actually stand and has the, the harness to, to do that. So you can do it. Mm-hmm right. It's again, you really can do these things and give somebody an opportunity. And Danny's a phenomenal actor, you know what I mean? But I think there are ways to do that.
[01:06:32] Like we talk about like, oh, well for Lieutenant Dan will digitally remove his legs. Gary will digitally remove his legs in there, but we can't do the reverse. We can do the reverse. Like, that's the thing. It's like this idea that it, you can't do it. And it becomes, I think there's this just perception of disability being bad.
[01:06:50] And it's not like I have a t-shirt that says disability is not a bad word. It's like, you give, you need to show people who are talented and give people an opportunity whether they're disabled
[01:06:59] Cris: or not. It [01:07:00] doesn't change it. Not only that I, with Lieutenant Dan, if the person had, if the actor had prosthetic legs, they could be digitally made to look
[01:07:08] Carl: real.
[01:07:08] Exactly. That's and that's exactly. Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying. So, you know,
[01:07:13] Cris: the technology was quite that good back then, but nowadays you wouldn't be able to tell probably no,
[01:07:18] Carl: but you could have hired an amputee with their prosthetics and you would never have known because you never see his legs.
[01:07:24] Like even if they were to pan down, he would've been in pants and boots, so you still would never have actually seen his leg. Yeah. You know, so it doesn't matter like that. I just, it was really eyeopening watching that movie again, because it truly was one of my favorite movies growing up when I, I was like, I lo when people ask me what my favorite movie was fors
[01:07:43] Cris: go.
[01:07:43] So I wanna be mindful of your time, but thank you so much for joining me for this. And I hope there's some kernel here or there that people can take away from this. And I just, I love chatting with you. Same. Thank you
[01:07:53] Carl: so much for asking me to be a part of this. I love being a part of, uh, the beginning of this movement, the blissful spinster movement for you [01:08:00] and, and wish you much success.
[01:08:01] And I can't wait to hear all the, the happenings as they continue for you.
[01:08:05] Cris: Thank you so much for tuning into bliss. Spinster. If any of these conversations are resonating with you, please subscribe on apple podcasts, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can find blissful spinster on Instagram and Twitter and through our website, blissful spinster.com.
[01:08:19] Again, thanks so much for joining me on this journey and until next week go find your happy.