Meet Carolina Groppa! Carolina is a Producer and Podcaster. She’s worked as a freelance producer for over a decade across all platforms and in both narrative and documentary mediums. Carolina earned her first, of what I’m sure will be more to come, Emmy nomination in Producing for the documentary Autism in Love. Most recently, a narrative film she produced this past year – Honk for Jesus, Save Your Soul, had its premiere at Sundance. Along with all her work in film & TV, Carolina also self-produces (I’d expect nothing less of a producer!) a wonderful and informative podcast called - Angle On Producers (AOP). On AOP she has in-depth conversations with many of today’s most progressive and innovative film & TV producers. AOP is how I discovered Carolina, and in our chat, we get into how she started AOP out of curiosity and with an aim to highlight the unvarnished truth of what it takes to work in film & TV as a producer and about all the different types of producers it takes to bring projects to fruition. We also talk about her journey, going from a freelance producer in physical production to pivoting and becoming a production executive at Issa Rea’s production company – ColorCreative as the Head of Physical Production. And the thing I find most wonderful about Carolina is that she is a poster child for following your passion and curiosity, as the opportunity to become a part of the ColorCreative team stemmed directly from her creating her podcast in the first place. Find out more about Carolina & Angle On Producers on her website: https://www.carolinagroppa.com Find out more about ColorCreative on their website: https://colorcreative.co Connect with Carolina on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carolinagroppa Listen to Angle On Producers here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/angle-on-producers-with-carolina-groppa/id1469447192
[00:00:00] Cris: Hi, and welcome to blissful Spinster. This week's guest is producer and podcaster Carolina Carolina lives in Los Angeles and has started a new adventure working for Issa Rae's production company ColorCreative as the new head of physical production before joining ColorCreative, she worked as a freelance producer for over a decade across commercials, film, and TV in both narrative and documentary formats, Catalina earned her first nomination of what I'm sure will become many more in producing for one of those documentaries
[00:00:28] autism and Love most recently, a narrative film. She produced this past year, Honk for Jesus. Save Your Soul, had its premiere at Sundance. Whoa, isn't that the dream. And for all of you film nerds and aspiring producers out there got Carolina followed her own curiosity and started a podcast called Angle on Producers.
[00:00:44] Which is full of fantastic interviews. I really loved meeting Carolina and talking about her own journey from physical production to the executive ranks of producing and how curiosity and her own podcasts led to that opportunity. So, however you found this podcast. Thank you for tuning in [00:01:00] and please enjoy this week's episode.
[00:01:01] Hello? Hello. Carolina my name's. Cris Graves. We haven't really met before, but I found you from an algorithm , I'm super excited that you responded to my email cuz I was, it was right when I was like, I'm gonna start my podcast and part of the Genesis. So you know, is I'm trying to get my first feature film off the ground.
[00:01:18] I'm 51. I'm a first time filmmaker and have worked in unscripted. My whole life. Didn't have very many contacts in independent film and I've been on this road since 2019. I've got a PGA producer attached and all kinds of things. She wants. She wants to meet you actually.
[00:01:33] Carolina: Oh, nice. What's her name?
[00:01:33] Cris: Her name's BD. Gunnell. And,
[00:01:36] Carolina: okay, cool.
[00:01:36] Cris: She's had a film at Tribeca and some other stuff. She's starting a company called empowered entertainment and she looked you up when I told her about you. Cause I got all excited about your podcast. So you gotta listen to this. She's got a similar background cuz she started in makeup too.
[00:01:48] I think you have some makeup credits on your IMDB
[00:01:51] Carolina: yeah, I did a makeup for a hot minute, like a year or two. I worked in the makeup artist. Yeah.
[00:01:55] Cris: Yeah. And then she went up the line producing end too.
[00:01:57] Carolina: Nice.
[00:01:58] Cris: But I also got excited cuz I grew up [00:02:00] in Mexico, not in the us. So I'm a third culture kid, which is what you are.
[00:02:03] I don't know if you know that. Is that what I'm considered? Yeah, because you're from Brazil, but you grew up here,
[00:02:08] right? Well, I was born in Brazil and I moved here and I was nine. So I feel like, I don't know, maybe. My kids will be,
[00:02:15] The definition is being born in one country and growing up in another.
[00:02:20] Carolina: Oh, okay. Then. Yeah. Then I guess that's what I am. I should look
[00:02:21] this up.
[00:02:21] Cris: Yeah. And I just was wondering what that kind of, how you think that's affected your worldview and your coming into production and how you see yourself.
[00:02:29] Carolina: Yeah. Like you mean specifically lowering up in Brazil or having the Brazil and then growing up here?
[00:02:33] Having the Brazil and growing up here, cuz I often think it makes our world view a little more.
[00:02:38] Cris: Yeah, I think 100%, I think when you come from a country like Brazil, which has a lot of wonderful things about it, but I don't know. Some places in the world, things are just harder, like basic things that you don't think about. Like in America are harder. When you come into a place where, and look, America's not a perfect country by all means, but there is definitely still a feeling here that no matter [00:03:00] how good or bad things are politically, that you are a person who works hard.
[00:03:04] You can achieve a lot of things. Whereas I would wonder if that same energy, that same effort in a country like Brazil would have similar results because there's some, there's such a cap on your, on how much you can do depending on what socioeconomic class you're born into. And so definitely I think like being a kid and having that as like my formative years in coming to a country where I from early on was instilled in me that.
[00:03:28] Clearly, my parents have made some kind of sacrifice that I quite couldn't articulate at nine years old, but I went to school and I didn't like school, but I was like, okay. But if all I have to do is be really good at this, then I'm gonna do that along my path is I grew up cause I lived in Virginia for a couple years and then my dad got a job in south Florida.
[00:03:44] It was always weird to me when I, I would just meet people that were just like lazy. Like I get that school isn't for everybody. But specifically in school people. Didn't care to even try. And I would always feel so that's so weird. You have everything at your fingertips. If you just put in like 25% [00:04:00] more effort, like you could get so much for yourself.
[00:04:02] Like why wouldn't you mm-hmm so many people are clamoring for that opportunity and others seemingly are squandering it. I just saw that a lot. With people that were around me growing up and it made me work even harder because I was like, oh man, I don't wanna be a cautionary tale of that gone wrong. I wanna be able to re have these goals, reach for them and know that with a lot of hard work and a lot of persistence, like it, it does pay off and it is possible.
[00:04:28] And I think when you look back professionally on my life now I've. In this grind of the industry for 16 years. And I think people come into your orbit and they see your highlight reel and they think it's been like that for you all the time. And that's one of the reasons why I started angle on producers, my podcast, because I too felt prey to that where I would look up producers, I admired and be like, wow, like they've made it.
[00:04:49] And it must be so easy for them. And now they have a overall and it's just, the floodgates must just be open and everything is so easy. And then you start to talk to people and you realize that's not quite how it is and how [00:05:00] everyone still. An uphill battle that they're facing professionally, per personally, et cetera, humanizes things a little bit more, takes a bit of the romance out of it.
[00:05:09] Mm-hmm when it makes it so real. But I think I've always been really interested in looking behind the curtain and seeing what's really going on. And what's really there. And I think a huge part of that impetus for me came because of the way that I was brought into this country. I wanna understand how things.
[00:05:25] Put together so I can put them together. Why not? Why can't I put it together? And that really has been, I think, a huge, I think motivator for me. I
[00:05:32] think I, unlike you, I flip it. I grew up in a Latin American country and I think I've always been a very resourceful person. A lot of it came from growing up in Mexico.
[00:05:42] And I think I would put it to you from what I see and what I've heard. You I've listened to you on other podcast, but I also listened to you on your own podcast and there's a resourcefulness and creating your podcast was part of that. Yeah. You're sitting around and you're like, how do I understand this better?
[00:05:57] How do I get myself ahead? Or how do I learn [00:06:00] more of what, where, what angle I wanna. Yeah. And I think that to me, when I see you or listen to you, I. Oh, she, that comes from re Latin American. Yeah.
[00:06:08] Yeah. And look, there's, I'm not saying that the American way is the best way or the right way, but there's definitely you take, I think what the best part of being an immigrant is that you can take a little bit from all and make whatever works for you.
[00:06:20] And for a long time, I felt really frustrated that I've always felt like this. Outsider like this hybrid person that I never, there's very few people in my life who understand the full scope of me because I'm so Brazilian, but so American and my American friends will never really understand that side and vice versa.
[00:06:36] But I do think you get to, as you get older, create a new identity in a way that's the best of what works from all these cultures and these experiences that one has. But I do think you're right, like the resourcefulness comes to from curiosity. And I think the other part of it. Not only did we immigrate here, but when I was 19, I also left home mm-hmm and came to LA by myself.
[00:06:55] So I had my own sort of migration west, where I had to do [00:07:00] a mini version of what my parents did and come out to a really hard city and choose a really hard industry, cuz like why not one of the hardest businesses and just try to stay alive in that. And sometimes I think back to 19 year old Carolina, and I'm like, I don't know how she did that.
[00:07:14] And I don't know how my parents just felt like they could trust that I was gonna come out here and. Die, whether emotionally, spiritually, literally, cuz LA can be a really hard place. And I think if you don't come out with some sort of infrastructure and support and structure and connection and a community, you can really get lost in a lot of stuff that isn't really what Hollywood is about.
[00:07:35] Like what the business is about. There's like there's a lot of vultures. Here and a lot of energy vampires. And if you get lost in the wrong alley, some people never really make it back. So I feel really fortunate that I somehow had the street smarts to never get lost in any of that.
[00:07:50] That's really good. Yeah. I moved out here in 96 with a backpack, my computer and knowing no one. And I know exactly where, what you're talking about
[00:07:57] to LA?
[00:07:58] To LA, yeah, I grad...
[00:07:58] Carolina: What made you come [00:08:00] here in 96? What made you choose to do that?
[00:08:01] Cris: I've so, since I was eight, I wanted to work in film. I watched close encounters with third kind with my sister in the theater.
[00:08:07] And somehow my little brain was like, I wanna make that. I figured out it wasn't just a story, but someone had made it. Yeah. And so I was very focused. Little kid. Yeah. Started reading plays and stuff like that. But I always knew I had a subscription to premier magazine was given to me at Christmas when it was very first out and it used to be an actual film magazine.
[00:08:27] And I had Michael Douglas up on my wall cause he was a producer on CPU's nest. Not because we're ING the stone, although I love ING the stone. But like that was, that was the kind of, yeah. Yeah. And, but I studied theater. I went to undergrad for theater and I have a master of fine arts and theater technology from the year university, Illinois.
[00:08:43] And then I moved out here.
[00:08:44] Carolina: Did you study theater? Like what part of theater did you study?
[00:08:47] Cris: Technical and design technical. Okay. Does that? Okay. And I also was writing plays. I was, as we are when we're younger and we have our little egos, sometimes I had a feeling I already knew how to write, so I didn't wanna study that necessarily, [00:09:00] but I wanted to study.
[00:09:01] The design part, because I was also interested in possibly cinematography or something like that. Cause I always thought I'd wanna direct. And I didn't know if it was gonna be writing or cinematography that was gonna get me there even though I was studying theater, but I decided if I wanna write a script that communicates to all those artists, because a script is a conversation between the screenwriter and every other artist, it's a blueprint, but it's also a conversation.
[00:09:21] Yeah. So to get, to learn how to speak to those other people that I want to make my vision, I learned their craft. So I knew how to write for, for that. I love that I was only the second woman to get my MF on MFA from that department, from the university of Illinois in theater technology. And that was in the mid nineties.
[00:09:38] Imagine that's we think we've come far, but we have, we haven't it's really sad. Yeah. And then before I graduated, I got an internship that went away. Oh my goodness. then I was stuck out here going, I'm not going back. I'm not telling anyone. And I figured it. But I know that feeling that you're saying that you can get lost in the trappings of Hollywood rather than what the actual focus is, [00:10:00] right.
[00:10:00] The work and yeah, it's interesting. I just, I, I look back at 25 year old Chris and wonder sometimes cuz I was fearless and I think we all have a sense of fearless and I've been working the last few years to get back to that. Yeah. And
[00:10:12] Carolina: I'm a huge proponent of shooting your shot. Like I'm my whole Mo. How I built a career is like it, doesn't hard to ask.
[00:10:19] What's the worst that can happen. And that is not easy. It's learned behavior. It doesn't, it didn't come easily for me when I started. It's a little easier now, but there's always something that's above you. That's scary. That's a reach, right? Like cold emailing someone. There's always someone that gives you like, oh, butterflies in your stomach to, to reach out to.
[00:10:36] But I always say that the more you practice that muscle on low, like low hanging fruit or things with low. Like that, that aren't gonna have a, the repercussions won't be bad. Yeah. Huge impact. Then the more you can prepare for when that is that there is that big thing that you wanna go up to that person at that panel and talk to them or whatever the thing may be for you, the more you practice that, the easier it
[00:10:58] Cris: becomes.
[00:10:58] What was your [00:11:00] to get into the impetus for you starting the podcast? Like, what was that and what have you learned yourself? Because I know you ask everyone else. And I was just curious, you've had all these great conversations. Yeah. It seems to have led to something pretty cool. I, I don't know if I you've alluded to it in some of the episodes.
[00:11:15] I don't know exactly what you're up to. It's. That
[00:11:16] Carolina: was cool for sure. I think the impetus was like, I came out here to be an actor initially, and I always have loved being on camera, having conversations with people. I'm not really. Shy person in that sense, I definitely am an introvert, which people find not a, they don't believe that when I tell them, but I am.
[00:11:34] I just love connecting with people. And one thing that I felt that I didn't have when I was like, how does one do? This was some guidance. And you hear about mentors and people talk about mentors. And I was like, how do you get a mentor? So I think what I really wanted was to have something that I could create from like more of an artist perspective that I could have.
[00:11:51] Regardless of what was happening with my work mm-hmm . So if I got a job or I didn't get a job, whatever was happening there, I always had this [00:12:00] one place where I could put my attention and feel creatively fulfilled, frankly, is where it was coming from. And so I thought about a lot of things I could create, but I had a few experiences that year leading up to the podcast rugs sort, getting ripped under from under me, because a financeer would pull out of projects and like months and months of my time gone, because one person decided to just bail.
[00:12:20] And so I was like, what can. Eight that doesn't require a large team of people that can be self-sufficient that I can be self-reliant and a podcast that came to mind. And I was like, what would I talk about? This is in 2016, 17, when I started thinking about it and podcasting was already hot, but not like it is now back then.
[00:12:37] And so I was like, what could I do that would, what do I have to offer? And so I got to a place in my career where I started having a lot of young people reach out to me, wanting to go to coffee and pick my brain. And I was like, this is crazy. I barely know what I'm doing. I'm just getting started and finding my own.
[00:12:51] So the fact that anyone's looking at me for advice is bonkers, but it started to get me thinking. I reach out to a lot of people wanting to pick their brain over coffee. The people that I [00:13:00] admire, I'm sure they feel the same way. What if I was able to have these conversations and record them and share them so that now you only have to have.
[00:13:08] One conversation instead of three, 400 brain pickings over coffee. And could I have them from a place of transparency about a lot of the themes and things I would talk about with other producer friends over usually a lot of wine about the realities of this business. And I was like, why is this so hard to.
[00:13:24] Fine, no one talks about this outside of these groups. And so that's where I was like, I wanna go on this journey to learn about what these other producer types do, how they got on their path, understand who they are and what lessons they have to teach us and have these time capsules of their journeys so that anyone finding them at any moment in time can hopefully find some value mm-hmm
[00:13:43] And that's really how it began was a curiosity and resourcefulness of how do I do this in a way that I can sustain. That I don't have to rely on a team of people and that's how the podcast was born. And then I did six months of recording and it was really hard in the beginning to get people to respond.
[00:13:59] And so it was [00:14:00] a lot of cold emails and following up and shooting my shot. Yeah. Especially cuz it's who am I really? And how, and producers notoriously, don't get asked to come talk about themselves or their careers. And so there was a lot of skepticism of what are you gonna do with this audio? Are you gonna try to cut this in some way?
[00:14:14] So I think once people found out what my intentions were and the fact that I'm not a journal. This isn't press for a movie. Yeah. I'm a producer talking to another producer. I think people started to understand the value of what I was after and the sense of community it creates. So that was like really the impetus.
[00:14:29] But for me, what I've gained from it, I feel like I have 76. Which is the amount of episodes I have believe it are not mentors. I feel like a lot of these women and then a few men all have something they've taught me in different ways at different times. And sometimes what's been really fascinating is when you're recording you're in the conversation.
[00:14:47] And because I edit my own podcast, when I go. Edit them sometimes it's a month later, sometimes more because I do it while I'm actively working in production most of the time. Yeah. But I'll listen to things that either I said, or they said [00:15:00] like, it's the first time. And I'll be like, I don't even remember asking this question.
[00:15:03] And oftentimes I'll be editing on a day where I really needed to hear whatever it is that the guest was saying myself. So it'll inspire me or motivate me or make me feel that's right. I'm. That alone. That's right. Everybody feels like an imposter. Oh, that's right. No matter how high you climb or how much money you make, there's always something in your life.
[00:15:19] That's gonna be that counter to keep you in that flow of the, that is to exist as a human mm-hmm. , it's been a really good anchor for me in a lot of ways. And I would say that's the biggest thing I've learned is. How many more things we share in common versus what separates us, especially women and especially the kinds of people that gravitate towards producing.
[00:15:41] There's like a specific DNA of a human I've learned that thrives in this kind of. Chaos mm-hmm and is endlessly curious about the process and wants to be with creatives and helping them get their stories told. So it's been a really incredible ride. And then the third sort of answer to your question, that what it brought me, which is for a [00:16:00] long time, when I started, I felt like I was talking and to avoid and no one really cared and it's, I'm doing this by myself and how do I get people to listen?
[00:16:07] And it is niche conversations, but the filmmaking community is international and it's huge. How do I reach. People. And so I could only do so much. I was also trying to be my own publicist, my own market, like yeah. Social media. It's just so much. Yeah. And it feels like it's a lot of work and that's the other thing.
[00:16:21] People don't consider how much work goes into a podcast. You think it's just audio, but it's a lot. And I had to learn how to edit audio. I had to learn all these. Things, the tech side of it was a huge learning curve. And I have mad respect for sound engineers and sound mixers now in ways that I, I never would've had before this.
[00:16:37] And so it, it was like, okay, I, I feel like I'm talking and to avoid, and I don't really know who is listening or what it is they're gaining from this because I was took a while for people to start reaching out and sharing their, what was work, what late they liked about the show. And then I had to remind myself like of my own listener habits as a podcast consumer.
[00:16:54] So many shows that I love that I don't reach out to the. To email them about what I thought of that episode, [00:17:00] like my own habit. And I had to be okay, this is just, well, how most people consume podcasts. And if people want to reach out, they will. And then they started doing that, but it took two, three years of consistency.
[00:17:10] Wow. To get there. So it is a long game. And I don't say that to discourage you, but if anyone can do it faster than more power to you, but that's what my journey was like. And I knew that I had chosen like a niche thing, but my hope is. However long the podcast lasts. It can be, like I said, time, capsules that will live forever on the internet that people can find whatever, whenever they're meant to find it.
[00:17:31] But this podcast was a huge reason why I have the job that I have now, which is I'm now an executive at Issa race production company, building out her production company, alongside her and our incredible team of women of color who are just phenomenal. And yeah, it's connecting the dots looking backwards.
[00:17:46] It's not like I planned this, but if I hadn't started the podcast, if I hadn't reached out to some of those people that were scary. Like Denise Davis, who is the person? One of the very first people I reached out. She was episode number two, I believe in 2018 and said, I wanna learn about [00:18:00]your journey, who knows how things would've unfolded, but Denise remembered me.
[00:18:03] We stayed in touch. And then when this opportunity came up, she was like, Hey, I think you would be really good to come in and join our team. Have you ever considered going in house? And I had, but I had worked so hard to create a career that would allow me the freedom to do whatever I wanted that to trade that up to be golden handcuffs into some company was a really, it wasn't something I would ever really want to do at that stage of my career.
[00:18:28] But when ISA RA comes calling and in the way that it appeared in my life, like you lean in and anytime in my career, certain things have. Orchestrated in this really weird fantastical sort of serendipitous way. I've always said yes, because it's always led me to places that I would not have gotten on my own.
[00:18:45] And that's it. Now I'm nine months into this role and still doing the podcast slowly but surely once a month here and there whenever I can, but yeah, it's a whole new chapter and I'm getting to build something really cool. And I'm really proud of the work that I get to do alongside
[00:18:59] Cris: them. That's so [00:19:00] cool.
[00:19:00] So what do you think you've brought to that new role from what? Because you came up physical production. Yeah. I got the sense that you were. A transition possibly into becoming more of a creative producer at some point. And you've interviewed several people who started where you are now. Talk to me a little bit about that, cuz it's cool.
[00:19:15] And I want you to be able to talk about that.
[00:19:17] Carolina: Let's see. So I think what I bring is, is maybe a fresh perspective into what it means to be an executive because I wasn't encumbered by worked at an agency or came up on this person's desk or this is how they did it at Warner brothers, or if I don't have anything to gauge what it should be like.
[00:19:34] And so I get to make it up as I go. And one thing. Learn about our industry is so many rules are just made up by the people that decided this is just how it should be. So why not me? Why don't I get to make some rules up too? I have the experience to support that, right? That's why they hired me, but I think it's, I get to bring the streets and the fact that I've been in the trenches, I've been doing the work here.
[00:19:55] So I think that is something they really valued. And the fact that when [00:20:00] I was coming up in production, I never wanted to get stuck in one lane. So I made a very deliberate choice to like, Commercials do docs do brand it and play in all kinds of different sandboxes, because I wanted to stay sharp. I wanted to never forget the sort of sprint of doing a commercial and having only two weeks to put it all together.
[00:20:18] And then the marathon of a feature, which is like six months of my life. And it's different people, different temperaments, different, different connections. Like there's different crew that work in different places. And I just genuinely loved it. And I started to. Sometimes in the beginning, it was very led by money.
[00:20:33] I was like, okay, commercials pay good money. I'm gonna go make that. And then I'll go do this feature and I'll get to learn this other side of the business. But, but really it was just staying versatile in what I can now do. And it's, I think one of the big reasons why the worst that they saw in like a young executive who.
[00:20:49] Has literally spent 12 years doing all of the things that I now get to build the best metaphor is if I've been a general contractor, most of my career, I now get to be an architect and help figure out how do [00:21:00] we build something? How do we build a production company that leverages and leans? And all of this experience that I have to do production that is inclusive is diverse, is all of those things, but also considers.
[00:21:10] The wellbeing of our crew and the sort of tempo of a set. And while production is production, it'll always be very hard. I know firsthand experience that there's a way to do it from a place of like love and just a little vibrating from a, just a slightly higher frequency where people really feel supported.
[00:21:26] And regardless of the outcome of that project, people can walk away saying that was a good set. I was treated with respect. Like those are good people. That's all I want. Yeah. I want the people that have. That is an extension of me and thus now an extension of ISA, which is something I take very seriously, a responsibility.
[00:21:43] I take very seriously to be only the most positive it can be because life is too short and production is hard, but we don't have to make it harder than it needs to be. And so I think that's what I bring to it is just that perspective in that or all of the things I've already experienced. I'm still somehow not a cynical [00:22:00] bitter asshole.
[00:22:00] Like I've managed to hold on to my integrity and my joy, my ability to show up and smile because look, it's hard. No one's gonna ever deny you how hard every aspect of this business is no matter what you choose at what stage, but you've gotta be able to step back and go. Yeah, but this is great. This is the best job in the world.
[00:22:19] Do we get to tell stories for a living? We get to help inform perspectives and change people's minds. We get to be there for people when they're going through really hard times in their lives or when they just need to laugh, or when they need to like step into the world of another character that they wouldn't otherwise step into.
[00:22:34] We get to bring these experiences to people. We inform culture and conversations. So it's really tremendous. And so when you really start to remember that for me, that's what I try to come back to when it gets really hard, the why is super important. And if you lose touch with your why, I think that's how you can very quickly get lost in what we were talking about.
[00:22:53] Some of the lanes of the industry that aren't as pretty. Yeah,
[00:22:57] Cris: I think the Y keeps it's like a [00:23:00] balance that keeps us center. As long as you keep, like the, to mix metaphors, that kind of little fire burning in there that knows why you're trying to be here and why, what you're trying to communicate with your voice.
[00:23:13] You can navigate a lot of different things, but anyway, off, just like you, I go off the tangent sometimes and
[00:23:20] Carolina: chats me. If you listen to the show, know I'm like babbling on. Yeah. You're like, by the way, most of my editing is just me removing me like babbling on for three. So
[00:23:30] Cris: oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, no, I, my cats are being very quiet, but some of my editing's also gonna be they'll come in and they'll start ING.
[00:23:36] And I literally just had to do a note, like just a note, you might hear my cats in this because yeah. You were ING straight through one of the guests and it was very funny. Wow. Oh my gosh. That's so funny. That's part of the joke of being a spinster and I'm leaning into it and I'm trying to reclaim that word.
[00:23:52] Oh, because I'm super happy. Single I'm 51. I don't do shit about relationships and yeah, I think it's [00:24:00] an, it's something that we need to start showing women, especially younger women. Yeah. As we get yeah. Indoctrinated with your happiness is exterior to yourself. Yeah. For sure. It's given to you when you're chosen.
[00:24:10] And isn't that. Yeah. An icky thing to be telling
[00:24:13] Carolina: people, right. It's icky and that's not true at all. You have to be happy with yourself first. Even if you wanna be in a partnership,
[00:24:19] Cris: that's like the thing. Yeah. You have to be yeah. Happy within yourself for your, the partnership to really work.
[00:24:25] Carolina: I think the biggest lie we are fed is that regardless of a romantic relationship is that someone else is supposed to come along and give you whatever it is.
[00:24:33] You feel like you're missing or needing whether. Money or food or whatever fills your well, but the, the truth is you have to be your own. Yeah. Like fire, you have to figure out how to sustain that for yourself. And then if you want to be in a partnership with someone, then hopefully that person also brings that.
[00:24:50] So you're still two independent pillars coming together. Versus I hate that. Like you complete me. Yeah. From Jerry McGuire. Like I know that people love that movie and they love that line. And it's the [00:25:00] view beautiful moment. But mm-hmm, , I don't like the idea. I need someone to feel complete. Yeah. I very much subs.
[00:25:07] I very much agree with that and commend you for your efforts to reclaim the word spinster.
[00:25:14] Cris: Well, thank you. My film's called a long girl and it's a coming of middle-aged story wrapped in an unromantic comedy. Nice. And it really draws from my own story. Of realizing that I personally, and then just more broadly, we've been gas lit by the patriarchy basically, indeed.
[00:25:29] For hundreds of years into thinking yeah. These things that you were just talking about. Yeah. And so I've taken the romcom and turned it on its head. Nice. And she says, no, at the. And stays on her own through no fault of the man. The man is perfectly fine. She should be on her own. And with that, it's a different kind of story that our industry is not used to.
[00:25:49] Mm. So trying to raise the money for this as a female filmmaker, both writer, director, my producer is a female. Yeah. It's hard. and I was wondering like with [00:26:00] these conversations, what are those challenges that you see are the biggest for, for female filmmakers or, or not necessarily obstacles, but what are, what kinds of things, cuz I know you've talked to Jen west fo and Laura Lewis and those are just wonderful conversations.
[00:26:13] I think there's
[00:26:14] Carolina: no secret or any there's nothing I can say that hasn't been said before. It's like for as much pro for as much progress as we've made, like. Still super hard and you just have to keep knocking on those doors. You just can't give up. And that's what every woman who perseveres does from Laura Lewis to any woman who wants to create anything for herself, whether it be a film or start a business, like we just have to keep trying, cuz I think if women start to go, well, all right, I guess.
[00:26:39] It's like, then it'll never get easier. And I wish I could say, oh yeah, let's keep at this for five years. And that's all we need. Like, I would love to know that we live in a world where the next generation of women coming up under us will have that much easier than we had it. And I know that with that generation, it's a little bit better, but yeah, I think you have to persevere, but I also think you have to be really strategic and make smart.
[00:26:59] Choices and be [00:27:00] intentional about what you're doing and whom you're going after. So I think with Laura Lewis, for example, making a list and having a really targeted approach as to who she was gonna meet with. And if those people don't work, you give yourself time to process that grief mm-hmm of that reality.
[00:27:14] Cuz I also think that's important. Wow. This sucks. And all the men that I thought were gonna show up for me when I came yeah. Calling and was ready. Start my own company who said, yeah, I'll support you. None of them were anywhere to be seen. That's hard. Yeah. To come to terms with when you've invested, how many years, like Laura Lewis invested at that point in her career, but she didn't give up.
[00:27:33] She kept trying, and I don't know the, how it, she ended up getting the funds for her company, but I believe it was women that ended up funding her. It was a woman. It was a woman you can't give up before. I don't know. There's some saying here that Americans use that. I always forget. The yard line, something about the 50 yard.
[00:27:50] You can't like, it's a football metaphor. I don't know. I don't terrible at it. So you just have to persevere and it's hard because it costs so much, right? Because we have to fight a system that has been [00:28:00] designed mm-hmm to oppress us and keeps, keep us down and keep us in our place. And that's not changing anytime soon.
[00:28:06] So it's numbers and it's the more women that can rise up. And then the more women that get to yeah. Make money, doing it for others, for men, especially then they'll go, oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, we should invest in women. They have a large buying power and they actually come out a lot of the economy, like all of the stuff that is fact, but yeah, it's power.
[00:28:24] And I think that fight for power and balance will always be here. Unfortunately, I don't know. At what point, maybe like in a thousand years, Do we just arrive and is it because women finally outnumber men, like by tons? I don't know, got some science fiction shit, you know,
[00:28:40] Cris: and we already,
[00:28:42] Carolina: we do, but like maybe we just need like more women and I
[00:28:46] Cris: don't know, that's the thing.
[00:28:46] I mean, like my producing partner, BD and I we're big, she, her empowered entertainment, she's hoping to find female investors cuz there's one, that number is tiny. The reports. That come out about directors and whatever. They don't even [00:29:00] include female investors in film. They're almost all male. And until we get a little parody in that, we're not gonna get equity.
[00:29:08] Exactly. And that's kind of part of why I gravitated towards her as a partner. I'm kind of a triple threat and that way, cuz I can produce, I can write and I can direct. Yeah. And a lot of people can do that, but I'm at this, I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. And I thought this podcast could also turn me into that voice for the spinster re reclamation.
[00:29:27] So when you see, when somebody sees my script, they go obvious choice. Yeah. And just like you've turned your podcast into what you're doing. It was a great example. And I wanna thank you for that. Thank you. That's got to hear that. What is the role of being bold, played in our careers? What do you think?
[00:29:42] Because I think you've done some very bold things.
[00:29:44] Carolina: I mean, I think you've have to have a healthy dose of boldness to do any part of being a woman, navigating any space, that's male dominated, which is most spaces. And then you add. Level layer of Hollywood to it all. And yeah, there's level of boldness, but I [00:30:00] caution that you don't have to be a bitch to be bold.
[00:30:02] You don't have to be like negative or mean or step on or climb on top of others to get where you're going to be bold. I think integrity is really important and authenticity is really important. And thankfully we're at a time where that is really valued, especially in our business. And I think that if you can find boldness.
[00:30:19] Without losing touch of what your authenticity and your integrity means as a human navigating this planet, then that's the secret sauce. And there's like a formula that I think is inherent and unique to each person. But because otherwise I think what good is it to get where you're going? If you're gonna be like the worst version of yourself to get there.
[00:30:37] I don't think that's a life worth living. I don't think that's like a journey worth going on personally. And so for me, it's always like, how do I make sure that regardless. What is what success is there for me? Like, how am I navigating my life from a place from those places so that I can lead by example and show others that it is possible to be kind and being kind doesn't mean being a [00:31:00]pushover mm-hmm right?
[00:31:00] Yeah. Like being bold doesn't mean there's always. A spectrum of these things within a given moment and that it's entirely possible. So if I can be an example to others of that, I think that's great. And however that, however, someone finds that for themselves, I think it's really exciting. Yeah.
[00:31:16] Cris: I'm a very big proponent of being kind as you're going up the ranks.
[00:31:20] I am gen X, which is, I think you're in a millennial
[00:31:24] kind
[00:31:24] Carolina: of camp, I think. So. I always forget
[00:31:26] Cris: when, cause so when I was coming up there was still. And I think there might still be some of it in residue from how you've commented, but it was very much so when I was coming up that there was one seat at the table.
[00:31:38] Yeah. For a woman, as you were coming up, no matter what layer you were at and I've been stepped on mm-hmm oh, I've been stepped on more by women than men sometimes for sure. Oh yeah, I have as well. Yeah, but I don't actually, and I was telling her friend of mine from Mexico from high school that she's become a therapist since this podcast.
[00:31:54] Won't just be film. There's a lot of different things, but we were talking, I said to me, My greatest [00:32:00] joy is starting on a job. And there's maybe an associate producer under me that I can see is hungry and wants to learn. And me reaching back and going, come on, let me show you, let me show you where I've been.
[00:32:11] Yeah, because when it changes is when we all show up at the table, not when one of us shows up, but when we all fucking show up and go. Hi, we're here and we know what we're doing. Yeah. Like there's room at this
[00:32:21] Carolina: table. And look, I can't fault the women that came in generation before me, or even before you, I can't, that's what I was gonna say.
[00:32:27] Yeah. And what they experience, however, the whole point is that just because it was really hard. Yeah. For others doesn't mean we have to make it that hard for people coming up under us. Yeah. Like I also think that grit makes you. Strong. So I'm also not saying we should enable, oh, she's a woman. We'll just hire her.
[00:32:45] Now. I still think that there's work that needs to go in. I think that character is super important and unfortunately, or fortunately character and forming who you are in that authenticity I was talking about really only comes at the expense of challenge. Mm-hmm . In how you [00:33:00]navigate those challenges and who you are going to be in the face of those challenges, we're all given that choice.
[00:33:05] And I think those are the people that you can figure out how to navigate that in yourself. I don't, I can't guarantee what success looks like for that person, but I know. That they'll have a much better journey wherever it is. They're meant to go. Yeah. And the people that come in their orbit will have a positive experience of them.
[00:33:22] And that imprinting is really important because that it shows other women or other people of color like, oh, okay. Wow. Okay. I didn't know. I could be like that and still get to that level. I didn't know. You know what I mean? It shows yeah. That you lead by example of what is possible.
[00:33:36] Cris: It also shows that kindness does lead to leadership.
[00:33:39] Yeah. You don't have to be a screamer. You don't have to be absolutely whatever that brooding. Whatever it is that yeah, supposedly outward projection of leadership that we've all worked under.
[00:33:50] Carolina: Look, it's really simple. Either you operate your life from a place of fear or a place of love, and that is a choice each person makes.
[00:33:56] And that's what I always say. Like, I can't force you to [00:34:00] be a better version of yourself. That's a journey you have to decide, and that's something you have to want to be. Whether you're coming to work on set with me, or you're a young mentee or whatever relationship in that moment, that person. Ultimately, it's a choice each person has to make for themselves.
[00:34:15] But the people that choose to operate from a place of love, it's not to say you don't get scared. It's not to say you don't have bad days. It's not to say that sometimes you aren't kind or you slip up cause you're human, but generally you're operating from a place of love and possibility. The people that seem to figure that out for themselves.
[00:34:31] Are the people that I have encountered that seem to elevate somehow a little more quickly. Yeah. It's almost like I find that. I feel like sometimes it's like different wavelengths that some people get to access because they like elevate themselves where all those other people are in those wavelengths.
[00:34:48] And that's how it. When people say Hollywood is so small, everybody just knows each other. And you're like, how's that possible? what's because I feel like those people that are all operating at that wavelength, just all start to know each other. Because as you go up [00:35:00] to the top, there aren't that many, what is the wavelength that you wanna be on?
[00:35:03] And I do think we all start at the bottom and some people get waved down and they stay there. I hope
[00:35:08] Cris: we're both elevating ourselves.
[00:35:10] Carolina: Absolutely. You're absolutely elevating yourself and I'm sure anyone who will listen by doing this, I'm sure a lot of women especially feel a lot of the feelings that you feel and that's yeah.
[00:35:19] Why else do anything? If not to remind others they're not alone.
[00:35:22] Cris: Yeah. There's that? And I also want people being able to listen in real time of that, of elevating my film into being right. Because just like you found a niche where yeah. Not everybody talked to producers and learned. Has been able to learn some of that.
[00:35:38] And I've heard a lot of podcasts where people are actually shooting or they've gotten the film to distribution, but not much about this part. The real struggle. Yeah. I was this close to our development funds 400 grand. The guy's getting a divorce, his wife fund roses funds. How am I supposed to even think that, that as a possibility or, and yeah, you grieve it.
[00:35:57] That's one thing you learn, you let yourself process it [00:36:00] and then you wake up the next day and go. What, where am I zigging
[00:36:04] Carolina: now? Yeah. And you have to thrive in that. You have to be a person who loves the challenge of getting up and having a new problem to solve, cuz that is at its core. What producing really is.
[00:36:14] And if, yeah, people that want stability, which is also a perception, it's not real. They have a harder time with that because you're constantly having to zigzag. Mm-hmm at every step of the way. And when things work, it's awesome. But when they don't work. Pretty bad as well. And then to, to your point from earlier, like that was a huge, other reason why I started the podcast because.
[00:36:34] Struggled so much with these ups and downs. And a lot of my self worth was tied up and my God, am I doing this? Nobody's calling me like, what is happening? And I wonder, do other people struggle with this? Like, do we see the highlight reel of a producer who gets their film at the, and we press release? And that's really exciting, but I'm like, but what articles that kind of they've tried for seven years and then this happened.
[00:36:55] And I'm like, I wanna talk about the seven years before that happened. Like, how did you sustain yourself? Like, how did [00:37:00] you mm-hmm find the energy to get up every day and go on. How did you financially survive? All of that to me is the real meat of like, how do you become the kind of person. That chooses this time and time again.
[00:37:14] So I wanna know who those people are because being in that wavelength with those people will remind you that there's more of us out there that are fighting that good fight and choosing this path. That again is a choice at any moment. Any of us could leave and go do something else. And yeah, depending on what experience you have as a producer, those skills are very transferable to other industries that could probably benefit a lot.
[00:37:37] Some of the brilliant minds that choose to be storytellers. Yeah.
[00:37:40] Cris: I think we're coming to a close of our time with you. We are. I'm so happy you decided to join me on my podcast and I love this conversation. Thank you so much for having me. I hope so much success in your new adventure that you're having.
[00:37:54] Carolina: Thank you, Chris, to you as well. You're entering a really cool new chapter leaning in being [00:38:00] bold and doing this show and doing all the things. And so I hope you take a moment to acknowledge that for yourself
[00:38:04] Cris: as well. Thank you so much for tuning. With spinster. If any of these conversations are resonating with you, please subscribe on apple podcast, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, you can find BLIS will spinster on Instagram and Twitter.
[00:38:16] And through our website, bliss will spinster.com. Again, thanks so much for joining me on this journey and until next week go find your happy.