Meet BD Gunnell! BD is my lead Creative Producer on Alone Girl. She’s got multiple producing credits in the independent film field and is a member of the P.G.A. You can check out her bio below. In this episode, you’ll hear how I met BD and was able to attract her interest in Alone Girl and how she ultimately signed on to be my lead producer. You’ll also hear about some of the ups and downs we’ve already been on as we try to secure the financing for Alone Girl. We also talk about the production company BD has started - Empowered Entertainment, and how the company aims to seek out female investors for the slate of films she’s planning on producing which includes Alone Girl. Connect with BD on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/bdgunnell/
[00:00:00] Cris: Hi, and welcome to Blissful Spinster. This week's guest, this creative producer, BD Gunnell BD lives in Kentucky, and is a PGA producer. Who's come up the ranks as a line producer. Some of the films she's produced on are perception, lazy Susan, and almost Paris, which screened at Tribeca BDS, a big advocate of equity in front of and behind the camera.
[00:00:18] And she has started her own production company called empowered entertainment, which has a slate of films. All. Strong female leads and themes of women's empowerment woven into them. And I'm super happy that my film alone girl is part of that slate. So here's my first episode BD and I will be sharing how we met and how I was able to attract her interest in me and my project.
[00:00:38] And ultimately have her attach herself to a lone girl as the lead producer. So, however you found this podcast. Thank you for tuning in and please enjoy this week's episode. Hi B. How you doing?
[00:00:49] BD: Hello, Cris. I'm great. How are.
[00:00:51] Cris: I'm good. Listen, everybody in podcast. This is one of my three cats. His name is [00:01:00] Bobby, and you may or may not hear him mute at some point, cuz he's decided to be noisy today.
[00:01:05] He likes to visit when we talk. It is called blissful Spencer. There is a cat on the, the logo. Yes, I do have cats. I'm very happy with my cats. Um, that's true. I have cats too. I have three of them. I know, I'm just saying it's a, it's a thing supposedly with spinsters, even though everybody has cats, I don't understand.
[00:01:21] No, your fans may not know that I have three cats though. That's true. They might not have gone to the website where they get to see them all. That is true. So, um, Butia I was wondering maybe, maybe we should start at the start of us. Right? We could do that. So about a year. About a year ago, right? A year and a month or so.
[00:01:41] BD: Oh my gosh. Has it been that long already? Holy cow. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it could be about that long
[00:01:48] Cris: somewhere around now. I think maybe, maybe it was in April. Was the clubhouse April or may. It was something like that last year.
[00:01:56] BD: It, something like that. I could probably back my email look, but that sounds about right.
[00:01:57] I can't believe it's been that long.
[00:01:58] Cris: Yeah. [00:02:00] Um, so I was, I I've been, I've been trying to get my film, a lone girl up off the ground, uh, and. One of the things I think, uh, that's that I've learned throughout everything on my journey is that when opportunities kind of pop up in weird random places, you, you go to 'em because you don't, you don't know who you're gonna meet because getting independent film off the ground is.
[00:02:26] Sometimes random, isn't it , you know? Oh yeah. Extremely random. Yeah. And so I was I'm. I was I'm a baby. I mean, I I've produced a lot of TV. I've produced a lot of things. I haven't tried to get a film off the ground. So I've written this script and part of the reason I'm doing this podcast is to help with that.
[00:02:43] You know, we can help kind of demystify at least one. Of how to make a film or how a film gets made by documenting this. And I'm kind of psyched to be a little open about that, cuz people usually aren't and it's hard to find that information, right? Yeah,
[00:02:57] BD: it is. Well, it's hard to find people who will share that [00:03:00] information.
[00:03:00] It's like this big secret that nobody wants to share.
[00:03:03] Cris: Yeah. And I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I've been trying to think about that for a few days going, like where does that come from? And am I making a mistake by doing this? I don't know. I don't know if I am, but I actually think if you put it out in the universe and this is a big putting it out in the universe, Things things start coming your way.
[00:03:18] Like how we ended up meeting was a year before we met, somebody asked me to be on their, um, they were doing these Instagram lives. I went on it and we were talking and it was part of me going, yeah, I'm trying to do this thing. I have this script that, um, for the listeners who don't know, it placed really high up in the Austin film festival.
[00:03:37] Uh, it was the first contest I, or competition I entered and it, and it did really well. It was a semifinalist in three categories. Of of the Austin film festival, then consequently, it made something called a bitch list. That's I think being reimagined right now, but it made the 2020 bitch list. And then it made the top 10% of the nickel fellowship, which I was pretty proud of.
[00:03:56] I mean that it's not placing, but it's right underneath that, [00:04:00] you know? And this person, once we had met over this Instagram live, um, they got all excited and they were like, I want to help you. And so it was the first time someone had expressed interest. And so I'm like, okay, let's try to do this. And it just kind of, um, I don't think to be honest, as I think about it, I think our energies weren't necessarily.
[00:04:20] Sara matched up. And I think the person really did wanna help. We just weren't in the right place to right. For, for it to work. Right. Um, it took me a year or so to figure that out. And I wish nothing but luck and whatever for whatever that group of people were doing. Um, because they were also trying to get films made.
[00:04:37] But what was great was as hard and heart wrenching as that sounds because they were, they were literally offering to find me all of the money for my film. So can you imagine somebody. This is their first time and they're trying to get this done. And then they come on that, and there was a lot of hope in my heart and a lot of like, oh, yay.
[00:04:55] Right. And if I'd met you at that point, but if I'd met you at that point, you would've [00:05:00] been like don't bank on it. Right. but, but I'm, I am super optimistic and you've probably learned that about me. That's why I'm still here. I'm 51 and I'm still trying to get a film made. My first film made. I really, really believe that this is the one and this is gonna happen, but it does require.
[00:05:17] All of the right pieces and people being put together. And I don't think that first group was necessarily right. It did give me confidence to know that there was people in there that were gonna be interested. And it did teach me a lot of lessons, like who, who I do wanna be aligned with or what kinds of thing.
[00:05:33] Like when I say let's get a lawyer involved and the other side gets spooked by that, then maybe I don't want to be involved with that side. Right. Um, and that's not on them. Right. They have their own way of doing things I personally was taught and I've been around this business quite a bit on, from different sides and stuff.
[00:05:50] A lawyer helps you. And the other side, it protects everyone, right? And this is a Mount Everest. We are climbing, it's a Mount Everest. That's gonna cost 5 [00:06:00] million. Everyone needs to be protected, right. Especially me as the writer. Right.
[00:06:04] BD: When any, anyone who is weary of attorneys either doesn't understand what they do or is potentially trying to do something untoward, that's gonna get caught by the attorney and they don't wanna be caught.
[00:06:16] That's been my experience whenever anybody gets weary of attorneys or, you know, oh, you're gonna, why, why would you do that? Like, well,
[00:06:21] Cris: why wouldn't I? Yeah, I mean, and I don't know if that's what was going on there or if they just, they weren't ready. Think for this kind of a, to me, I think they weren't ready for somebody's gung-ho as I was, that was ready to get things going for some
[00:06:36] BD: people though, attorneys there it's, there's a very real aspect to attorneys because the vast majority of attorneys don't work for free.
[00:06:43] You know, you. Have to put money down for an attorney. It very rare that you'll find somebody who will work without any kind of money or commitment down whatsoever. So when you're, when you're engaging an attorney, it's real, at least in your world, it's real. So they may not be there yet. They may still be in the, oh, we're still just feeling this out world, but they [00:07:00] don't necessarily wanna say that.
[00:07:01] So it's a, it's a good, it's a good way to kind of feel out how real somebody is, the next steps that
[00:07:05] Cris: they wanna take. Yeah. And that's, and that's, I think where this was, I think they weren't ready and that's no knock on. Yeah. Um, we parted very amicably. Like I said, I wish them all the luck in the world with whatever it is their next projects are.
[00:07:20] And I will buy a ticket and go watch it because I believe the more you support others, the faster we all rise up together. Right. So then I'm in this really low point at this point. Um, you know, I've got I've, I've had this promise, supposedly I've been trying everything to, to get some movement on it, which was part of.
[00:07:42] I think I seemed eager to them, which wasn't, which is interesting to me, you know, cuz I was just trying to make sure we were going to the next step. right. And I really was at my wits end and this email popped up on my. Email from a group called women in [00:08:00] media, who my membership had lapsed, but thankfully I was on the email.
[00:08:03] I then very AF after our, after we'd done the meeting and met, I, I joined so that it, I was like, I feel bad. They connected me to BD. I should join. I should, I should pay my membership again. So I did that, but this, this email pops up and it says, get outta development. Hell learn about tax credit. 180 1. But all I saw was get outta development.
[00:08:25] And I'm like, is this, what would help move the ball forward? Right? Because part of this is all right, I'm running into this obstacle. How do I get past it or through it or over it. And it's a big strategy game and a big puzzle where you're trying to figure out. How do you move it forward? The next inch, it needs to go forward.
[00:08:43] Right? And so I was like, is this gonna give me a piece of knowledge that will help move this group of people forward for me, um, towards making my film. So I go to it and I've never been on a, um, at a clubhouse. I had a friend show me around for one thing, cuz he wanted me to [00:09:00]listen to something he'd organized and that's it.
[00:09:02] I, I knew enough of how to get into the room and how to raise my hand. And I immediately raised my hand when I got on. Like, I didn't know what you guys were doing. I was just like, raise hand. I'm gonna ask a question. Um, and, uh, I, somebody got up before me a really lovely friend of mine, um, who I'd met on the festival circuit and.
[00:09:23] Used half her time to say really nice things about me. So thank you. I don't know if you remember that. I do. Yeah, but she asked her question and you guys were really, you gave her some really good advice. And then I got up and just like, this is where I'm at. I've got this group of people and. Would tax credit 180 1 help.
[00:09:42] If I told them, is this how to move this ball forward? And as I was asking, and then you guys, I think a couple of you started answering, I looked and you, and it was a producer from Santa Barbara who had re like all of a sudden, I'd already had you both had reached out and said, Hey, let's talk. Mm-hmm maybe you pick it up, cuz I don't know [00:10:00] what that sounded like to you.
[00:10:01] Well, you know,
[00:10:02] BD: what's funny and I, I won't go into too deep of detail, but the ironic thing here, and, and I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a reason because I wasn't originally a part of that clubhouse. I saw, I called Tema. Um, I've been doing a lot of, and she's she runs, uh, women in media. If you've never met her, she's an amazing woman.
[00:10:22] She does amazing things with women in media. She's definitely somebody on. Go shake her hand and meet her list. This popped up in my email because I joined women in media back in 2020, uh, because I was trying to just build my network. Uh, since I had moved to Kentucky out of LA and I was working to build my network and they had an event at Sundance and a good friend of mine said you should join.
[00:10:42] And there aren't really a lot of producers in women in media. It it's, I feel like it's more below the line. There's, there's a, there's a handful. And line producers, but not really a lot. So I have, you know, not as many in there in my world, but I saw this pop up. I know a ton about 180 1. Um, I have done a lot of work just with a couple different accountants and [00:11:00] attorneys and whatnot, and really asked questions and done my homework and applied for it, you know?
[00:11:05] Applied it to my previous movies. So I reached out and I said, Hey, do you think it'd be good to have a, a producer on board who actually has experience with this? Because I, I feel like I can balance out, you know, some of the other opinions in the room and we had a good talk about it. And, and she was like, yeah, I think that's a great idea.
[00:11:22] Why don't you come in? So I wasn't supposed to be a part of it. This popped up in my email and I reached out and said, Hey, would you like me to, to. If she said, no, it would've been fine. Then I might have come in and listened to it, but I, I just didn't necessarily need to. And so she said, yes, and I got in and, you know, I was trying to help where I could and give these opinions and, and, you know, I, I do these rooms sometimes and I've been trying forever to start my own clubhouse room.
[00:11:45] And it's, I just, my time is so busy. Um, it's, it gets very difficult to do, but you meet a lot of people or you get a lot of people who pitch you, who E either they're, they're missing some elements or it's just not hitting or. Something about it is not there. And when you're really [00:12:00] busy, you don't always have the time to, to guide that project, to there, to that place where it needs to be, unless you really truly identify with it.
[00:12:09] It feels very personal. There's something about it that sparks for you and you go to bed thinking about it and you wake up thinking about it. And when you got up and you pitch your. Project and kind of where you work. What was so funny is I wasn't, I was listening to your problem to like offer you advice.
[00:12:22] But when you started pitching the movie, I'm like, I love this idea. This is an amazing idea. And it definitely sparked for me. And I was like, this is, this is fantastic. And I, and I, that's why I reached out to as quickly as I did, because I definitely heard something in there that I was like, Even if it's not there, I'll take the time.
[00:12:38] I will help I'll jump in. You know, and at that point I was still kind of in the space where I had, I was still taking on projects and I had space. Um, when you were talking about like people not meshing, like literally today I had a project that said, you know what? I think we should part ways, cuz I'm just too busy and, and I understand it and I get it and I really feel bad about it cuz I do love that project, but I did warn.
[00:12:59] When we [00:13:00] came, when we came together that I am super busy right now. And I just don't know how much time I have to dedicate. So I appreciate their forwardness to say, I think it's time to move on and maybe I'll come back around with it. Maybe they'll come back around with it. And just the timing wasn't right.
[00:13:14] But I'll continue to try to help where I can. But yeah, it was, this room was definitely, it was destined, I would say . For us to meet each other. Cause neither one of us were
[00:13:22] Cris: supposed to be there. Well, I didn't, this is the first time I've heard that, that cuz you've never told me that you weren't supposed to be in that room originally.
[00:13:29] I just always thought that that was, that TA had reached out to you. You know what caught me to that point to be able to pitch, because I think people need this information too. If they're listening to this is I did a lot of work. I, the, the script I wrote at the beginning of 2019, before that in 2018 is when the idea came to me.
[00:13:47] So I, I thought about it for a good few months. I'm the kind of writer. I don't write an outline. I don't immediately start writing. What I do is if, if the idea's really grabbing me, I, I percolate it up here. I just, you know, [00:14:00] and I mm-hmm and the film, it's basically a coming a middle-aged story wrapped in an unromantic comedy about a woman who goes on this journey and realizes.
[00:14:09] That her happy place is being single. So I've taken a romcom genre and turned it on its head.
[00:14:14] BD: By the way, for those of you listening a coming a middle age story wrapped in an unromantic comedy is an amazing pitch line because it's, you're, you're taking words that are, would normally just roll out and be like, oh yeah, sure.
[00:14:26] But you're changing. 'em just enough that it, it causes people to go wait, what? And then they wanna know more information. And that is the best thing you can do with an immediate lead off. Is to grab people to wanna know more.
[00:14:36] Cris: So I wrote a lot of different types of pitches for myself for this film, once I'd written, cuz once I'd written it, I then I think it was the fifth draft that went to the awesome film festival cuz I did research and I said, okay, the competitions that matter are really, there's like three or four.
[00:14:53] That really matter. There's the awesome film festival. I think Paige is probably up there and the nickels and [00:15:00] there might be one or two that. That they get looked at by people. And by that me, I mean, I'm not ripped, so how do I, how do I make I sit down and I go, how do I make my script vetted? So that I'm ready when I meet someone that I've pitched my film to.
[00:15:13] Yeah. Um, and I can tell them, I'm not the only one saying my film is good and it's not just my friends. Right. Cause I have a lot of friends and I've done a table read and they all loved it, but they don't have cred necessarily, right. With a producer
[00:15:28] BD: to the people that you need to have credibility
[00:15:30] Cris: to.
[00:15:30] Right. And so I go, all right. If I put it into the Austin film festival or any of these in it places. Which it did to my shock. It did. I I'd actually forgotten. I had entered it when I got the call. I was driving down Santa Monica when the call came in, I actually thought it hadn't, it hadn't placed because I was seeing people posting about placing.
[00:15:49] And I was like, oh, I, I did enter that. I guess I didn't, I, I, I didn't get a phone call. So I guess I didn't. And the, the head of the script coordination thing called me while I was on my way to a screening [00:16:00] actually. And, uh, all of Beverly Hills probably heard. I was driving in my old car with the windows down, cuz it didn't have air conditioning and it was the tail.
[00:16:07] It was like early September. So it was super hot. Right. And I made 'em laugh. So that was all strategy. I'm like, okay, it's been vetted. And then I would take classes with women in film or, um, they were giving pitch. Uh, they gave a couple of different pitch pitch workshops, which I went to and I've got stage.
[00:16:26] So I knew I needed to go to these things to a learn how you pitch yourself, which is the, one of the workshops taught us how to pitch ourselves and how to pitch our project. Then I, they also Emily Best who runs, um, seed and spark and, and just is, is a wonderful human being as well. She ran a pitch clinic too, and that's really where I realized just how strong that pitch line you just talked about.
[00:16:49] The coming a middle age wrapped in an unromantic comedy was because I raised my hand just like I did in. That clubhouse room. I told myself, anytime you're at these things, you, I don't care [00:17:00] how much stage fright you have. You're getting over it. Cris, you are raising your hand and you are just going for it because I, you know, writers tend to be introverted.
[00:17:09] and I'm a little I'm, I'm a little mix of both. There's there's times when I can be extroverted, but there is a serious introverted streak in me. And so I got up and I did the pitch after she had us workshop it. And she was just like, you are 95% there. And that just because that'd been a year of me working on this stuff and she'd like, I love that line.
[00:17:28] Never get rid of that line. And she actually had me. Send her, this is the power of that stuff in meeting. She had me send her like a little blurb. I hadn't done my look book yet, or my, and that's learning. Right, right. And so I wrote a blurb, which I don't think was the greatest blurb, but I sent it to her.
[00:17:44] She, she forwarded it to the Dulo brothers. Right. As 2020, uh, the 20, 20, um, Sundance and award season was one. She goes, so don't expect their response soon. And then the pandemic end. So I've never gotten a response, no shade. I'm positive. It's sweetening in somebody's [00:18:00] inbox at the du Plaza brothers and never got open because we were all dealing with a pandemic and it wasn't meant to be open.
[00:18:06] It was, I, I wasn't ready. Well, yeah, that's the
[00:18:08] way
[00:18:08] BD: I see it is that it wasn't necessarily meant to go that route. Nothing against the guys. I think they're wonderful. And I think, I think what they've. And for low budget, indie film is pretty amazing because, you know, I spent the first six years of my producing career doing under $500,000 projects, you know, and I know that world very intimately and it's not an easy world to do.
[00:18:28] And they, they do it very well. So I, I just don't think this film is that world. And so I, I, don't not that they would've done it a disservice, I just don't think it would've been. The possibility that it's going to be in what it is now. And so there's always a reason. There's always a reason that something goes the way it does.
[00:18:44] The
[00:18:45] Cris: thing is, is to me, I look at that and I'm like, there's a positive reason that happened. And then there's, it, it, it wasn't the right time. Right. So there's positive reason is yeah. Cris got a boost out of that. Oh, my God, somebody liked this enough that they forwarded it, which is important. It's important to know [00:19:00] that stuff and to know yeah, because the more sure footage you are and the more, the first person that needs to believe in yourself and your project is you.
[00:19:08] If you do not. Yep. And if the, if the people you're pitching to sense that you don't, you're not gonna sell it and you're not gonna sell yourself, they're not gonna believe it. And you're not gonna attract the team that you need to build around you. And that's the thing I'm I'm, I, I, part of my strategy is.
[00:19:24] I need to build a team around me. That's gonna help me make this film because of making a film. I often say it and you've heard me say it before. It's like climbing Mount Everest. It really, really is. Mm-hmm , it's, it's one of the biggest
[00:19:37] BD: and, and picking your partners is honestly the ultimate marriage.
[00:19:41] Because once you actually get in with them, you start a company, you raise funds, you, you do all that stuff. You're not stuck with these people. You know, and it sounds negative to say that I don't mean it that way, but imagine if you went into business with somebody that you despise or that you don't get along with, or that you're constantly fighting with or nitpicking at, and oh, by the way, you make [00:20:00] the next Rocky horror picture show and 45 years from now that movie's still being seen, it's still being screened.
[00:20:06] People are still talking to you about it. They want you to come together for reunions. And you're just like, oh my God, do I have to see this person again? So that's why I always say. Super smart choices in the partners you work with because there's a possibility you are going to be chained to them in some way or link them in some way for the rest of your life.
[00:20:22] Yeah. So just be, be aware
[00:20:24] Cris: when you do that. And also don't be afraid to break it off. If you're not feeling it, I'm the one who broke up that initial. that initial connection. Mm-hmm, ,
[00:20:32] BD: I've broken off connection to when I realized
[00:20:34] Cris: something's going wrong. Yeah. And, and it wasn't necessarily, I, I like, I really, really did realize we're not clicking, so I can't, this isn't gonna move forward.
[00:20:43] Well, you know, and right. And a film takes years to get off the ground. It just does. And anyone who tells you that they got their money and made their film in a month is, uh, either lying or I probably don't or I don't wanna see that film.
[00:20:57] BD: So today I had a quick, just to interrupt real quick. I had a quick [00:21:00] chat today with the director.
[00:21:01] One of the first films that I produced back in 2010. And when I worked with him in 2010, he had put together this amazing idea for this movie. It was the budget was around 2 million, which back then sounded like so much money cuz we were doing 20 and $40,000 movies. and I talked to him today, cuz he has some short that he's doing with climate change and I'm, I'm helping him out with it.
[00:21:21] And I ask him, how's that movie going? And he kind of, he made a joke and when he said it, I forgot he had been working on this movie almost five years before I met him because he wrote the script. He got the, I, he put the ID together. It's based on a, a true story. He put it all together. It has been 17 years for him putting this movie together.
[00:21:41] Cause I've known him for 12. There was an additional five before that. And it's not that anybody's done anything wrong. It's just, the timing sometimes was off or that it got really close and then something fell apart. Or like you can't really force these things they happen when they're supposed to happen.
[00:21:58] And I mean, he's great cuz he's a, [00:22:00] he's an acting coach and he's got other things to fill his time and, and he's within the industry and what he does. So he just. Keeps grinding forward, but this is, this is his baby. And I'm not saying this to, to like put a cloud over. I'm just saying that it takes time.
[00:22:13] You know, Cris is absolutely right. Anybody who says they got it done in a month? I they're selling something. I they've gotta be selling some class or something that isn't actually going to work because it does, it takes time. Things change. People back out money goes away. The, the, the economy tanks, like the whole thing in 2008, I know four movies that I was attached to, um, that totally fell apart and never came back.
[00:22:35] Like, it's just, it's this industry is very fickle and you have to be prepared for that, which is why you kind of just always have to have something moving and churning and be prepared that that's gonna
[00:22:45] Cris: be the case. You and I have talked cuz you're. You're very suspicious. Sometimes you're suspicious of things or you're pessimistic.
[00:22:52] And I tend to look at the lighter side, but I also think in the more optimistic side of things, but I actually think that's a really good marriage [00:23:00] of personality.
[00:23:00] BD: I call it a reality check because, because in all honesty, people who know me in the producing world think I am the most. Positive person out there because I'm like, ideas are everywhere and don't lock yourself to something you'd like, life is too short to be unhappy and go make yourself happy and find what you love.
[00:23:16] I'm literally preaching this to producers all the time and like being positive and feel put out PO your words have power in this whole thing. So I'm not a pessimistic person, but when it comes down to these things, there's a realism that you do have to be smart about because this is still business. You know, this is where I think people fall down.
[00:23:33] Or kind of have this big trip where you're like running down a road, looking at your goal, and you're so focused on your goal that you don't actually see that road, that bump in the road in front of you and you literally kick it and smack yourself right in the face and break your nose. And if you had been watching for it, that's the reality check to say, Hey, that is suspicious or, Hey, I don't think that's gonna work.
[00:23:55] Or, Hey, we need to double check that or get our lawyer on it or [00:24:00] whatever it. So that you can avoid the time and healing that you need for that broken nose. And I think many people don't do that. And that's where you hear these horror stories of, I got it. I got my money. It fell apart. Somebody embezzled, you know, we got a huge fight.
[00:24:13] The IP is, is tied up in lawsuits and it, and these are sad stories that should never happen. But there were so focused on that goal that they missed all the little obstacles in front of them that they needed to be aware of along the way. So, yes, we are a great pairing in that because. 100% and focused on the ground in front of me and making sure that we're not gonna trip and fall on our faces.
[00:24:31] And we definitely need that person focused on the goal and the distance and pushing everybody towards it. But I think you can be that person and still be an optimist. We're
[00:24:39] Cris: we're both very much like this can be done. Yeah. And it's a giant, giant dream we're trying to, you know, and you've done it several times with other partners and that's the thing you have to find.
[00:24:51] I would suggest, and I'm a producer in my own. Right. But I needed a U. There's no way I was gonna get this up off the ground by myself. I don't [00:25:00] have the connections. I'm making certain connections. I'm putting myself out there. It's rallying that energy and that hope around getting your project made, I think is super beneficial.
[00:25:12] I don't think everyone does it. And
[00:25:13] BD: ironically, I need a, you. because sometimes I get caught up so much of what's happening around our ankles and right in front of our feet that I'm not looking far enough ahead. Or sometimes I'm like, I'm looking too much for what we could get tripped up in. And sometimes you need that person that kind of just nudges you forward into it.
[00:25:31] And it, it's a very complimentary skill that the two of us have that works very well together because when you get busy, I'm off working on something. When I get busy, you know, you're off working on something. And I feel like whenever we come back together, it's Hey, this is. Step, Hey, this is that next step.
[00:25:46] Hey, that didn't work. What about this direction? And we're constantly kind of this volume, the back and forth of it. And the weight of it isn't necessarily all on one person, cuz I can't tell you how much it, I don't do well in relationships where literally [00:26:00] somebody just comes and just dumps it all in my lap and goes, have fun and then wants to go direct it and then take all the credit for everything.
[00:26:07] Cause I don't know if this happens in the reality. But in the feature world, we were literally just talking about this the other day with a PGA group, the producers group Guild group, that I'm a part of about the fact that we all work, our butts off. And this podcast I think is gonna do a great job, kind of hitting these steps of as producers, what we're going through.
[00:26:24] And then obviously as we get closer, you'll get more into the directing side of what you're doing there. But this producing side of it, there is so much work and so much heavy lifting that you have to do before anybody else ever comes into the picture. And then you go and you make the movie. And, you know, the creative stuff is very important because that's what everybody sees.
[00:26:41] And that's, what's up on film on camera and on screen. And, but then you finish and you get it out there. And everybody thinks the, the actors and the director. And they're like, how did you choose this project? And what did you do? And da, da, da, da, and how they carried it. And the producers were all kind of standing behind going really seriously like this, that you do not know what I had to do to [00:27:00] get that to the point where they even had something to do.
[00:27:03] And it can be so frustrating. So I'm really glad that you're documenting this. Cuz I feel like this is something that gets lost in the process. Taken for granted that this is an easy part of the process and we make three phone calls and we're done.
[00:27:15] Cris: It's funny that you are bringing that part up because I was just listening to this podcast that I keep pushing on you.
[00:27:21] And hopefully when you're on your long flight, you can listen to one or two of 'em. I'm just saying this, this woman named Carolina GRPA she's from Brazil, but she's been a producer for several years and started a podcast just to talk to producers, which I think was brilliant because it is it, this is a, it it's a part of the business that.
[00:27:40] Because people see the actor or the director, but yeah, you rarely hear these producer interviews. Right. And she's got the slew of 'em already, but the person she just had on, they were talking about that. I guess this just for the first time, this year Sundance had the producers up on stage or something or like, like it's changing.
[00:27:59] Oh [00:28:00] wow. And the producers are starting to get recognition. And I thought that was super cool. And that's why one of the reasons I told you, you should listen to this episode because I do, I think producers deserve. A lot of the, you know, I, yes, I went to that clubhouse and then you pinged me and I made sure I followed up.
[00:28:17] You always follow up guys. Don't don't let that
[00:28:19] BD: stuff fall. And if that person doesn't respond, follow up again. Cause they're probably busy.
[00:28:24] Cris: Yeah, I did. Cause you were, you were busy, but the thing, the. Truth is to me that showed you were working on stuff that wasn't she's she's ghosting me. That was, oh, she must have a lot of projects.
[00:28:34] Cause she was talking about it. Right. I'm brand new to this, this contact, but it, I think it took us a week and a half to actually connect after that. Yeah, I think so. And I asked you if it was okay for me to send you my look. Book. And I think that was an important step because I've heard on writer, Twitter and all kinds of places, these type stories from either agents or producers or whoever it is that somebody's just called since them a bunch of stuff that just
[00:28:58] BD: happened to me, [00:29:00] actually, somebody before can I love the first thing they sent me and I would love to dig into it more, but they sent me.
[00:29:05] Seven other things, and I'm not gonna dig into those, but I have to delete the whole email because I don't, it, they didn't check with me. There was no submission. There was no check-in they didn't go through my manager. It like it. I can't take that chance that somebody can turn around and Sue me and say, I stole an idea from them when I only read the top thing that they put.
[00:29:22] And then I saw this other stuff and was like, Nope. And had to delete the whole thing.
[00:29:26] Cris: So ask before you send. Yeah. And it's just polite too, but also by asking and if they say yes, you know, they're actually gonna be excited to see it. Right. If you just send something cold,
[00:29:37] BD: I wanna interrupt for a second, Cris, because you and I had already talked in that room.
[00:29:41] So at that point, a connection was made, even though it was made a cold connection, we connected in a, in a clubhouse room. So you sending me something in that point was no longer unsolicited because we had what was an established relationship, even though it was a light kind of a weak one. In the beginning, we had some type of established [00:30:00] relationship to say, we have connected and it would not.
[00:30:02] Elicited at that point, you asking was just a formality on top of that and I, yes, you absolutely should continue to ask, even if you have met this person. Um, but what, what gets me is like, for example, this email I just got, I don't know this person, they got my email off of like Fernando or something for can.
[00:30:18] And they just sent me an email with all this stuff they never reached out initially would love to talk, would love to meet, cuz we could have had a face to face at can. And they'd. I have this idea and I say, I love it. Let's talk about it. And then they could've said, and I have all this other stuff. And I would've said, I'm super busy.
[00:30:33] Let's just focus on this one. But at least you could've had that initial connection. You know, that unsolicited is literally, you don't know, you have no connection. You do not know them in any way, shape or form. I don't care if your brother's cousin and sister knows. You don't have a personal connection with them.
[00:30:50] So that unsolicited is very important to know. Yeah.
[00:30:52] Cris: So I think, I mean, but if you're, if you're thinking of sending something to someone and you haven't met them, even in a clubhouse, just send a query. [00:31:00] Yeah. Don't send the actual material and I don't know a ton about the format of query letters. I, I can tell you.
[00:31:05] I know, I'm just saying like me personally, I send, I, I send whatever I send and it tends to get response well, so
[00:31:12] BD: if you're in this industry, you probably have IMDB pro. If you don't have IMDB pro go get it because there's no reason. Yes. It's like 180 9 a year or something like that. And you can get discounts through different organizations or you can pay monthly.
[00:31:27] It's a little bit more expensive over the year, but it's cheaper initially, even if you just pay for it for the month to go get a contact information for somebody, you can go look, somebody up, you can see if they have representatives. Representatives are a lawyer. A manager, an agent, those are the three representatives that are people you will reach out to on behalf of that person.
[00:31:48] And you can say, Hey. I have this idea. I heard this person speak at whatever, whether you listen to this podcast or you heard them speak on a clubhouse or you didn't get to talk to them, whatever it [00:32:00] is. And I would really like to connect to them. This is what I'd like to connect with them about. And if you wanna send a basic logline or a synopsis, don't send a Bible, don't send everything, don't put attachments because everybody deletes emails with attachments until they know you.
[00:32:14] And just say that I would really like to connect, you know, do they have. 10 minutes, five minutes, make it super short because everybody's busy. And if you go asking for a half hour or 45 or an hour long meeting, they don't know you. And they're just gonna say no, but Hey, just five minutes, that's all I'm looking for.
[00:32:31] Or would you be willing to forward this or is this something they would be looking for? I know my manager will vet projects as they come through and say, you know what? She's already got something like this in her stable. I don't think she would be interested in this at the moment, but we'll set it aside.
[00:32:46] I'll mention it to her and we'll see what happens, you know, thank you so much. And, and my manager knows to follow up with me, not everybody does, but it's definitely that world of, you know, Take the time, make the [00:33:00] investment. If you consider yourself a professional industry or you want to be a professional in this industry, that is a tool that you must have the most professional people in this industry pay for IMDB pro.
[00:33:12] I guarantee it, I see it all the time. There is nobody who doesn't have an IMDB pro membership, just because it's a, it's a generic thing that we all do and have. So go get it. You will find out whose people rep whose people's representatives are, and then you can reach out to. If they don't have a rep, that's a different story.
[00:33:28] And that's, Cris is really good at that. If you don't have a rep and just, Hey, da, da, da, da saw this, would you be okay if you know, and if they don't respond, try or twice more, and if they don't respond, they're too busy and, you know, try six
[00:33:42] Cris: months from then. So we met on a zoom and I, I had already sent you the lookbook
[00:33:49] BD: lookbooks are funny because I I've had people send me lookbooks before that are really sterile.
[00:33:54] Don't really give me an idea of what the story's about and just don't have any personality in them. [00:34:00] And I, I kind of dread the conversation after, because I'm like, ohoh, is this person actually like what they're doing? Like, cuz it just doesn't have that Piaz that shows that you're, you're passionate about it.
[00:34:11] Even if it's a dark. , you know, subject matter, I got sent a, a deck about the Holocaust and it was engaging. I was like, I wanna know more about this story. Yeah. Dark, dark story though. But it, but I, I just, I don't know. I really, I was already into the, the, the pitch. I love the idea. And what I loved most about your deck is that it was very warm and inviting, and it felt very like your neighbor next door, that you go sit on their porch and you just talk about the weather and.
[00:34:40] Hang out and, and, and desk, and I'm in the Midwest. So we do this type of thing. You don't do this in California, but you know, we do this type of thing where you just go hang out on your neighbor's porch and have a cup of coffee and chat with them. And it just felt like that. And I loved everything about it in that sense, because it didn't feel forced or, or formula, or like [00:35:00] it was trying too hard.
[00:35:01] But it also, like it had pictures of your cat and it had, you know, you had like very, cause it, it is somewhat based on your story. So it has these very personal touches that when we actually sat down and talked, I started asking questions about how much of it, of this is really you and wanted to know more about it, because that really it, sometimes when you tell a personal story, Be aware you are literally holding up a big fat mirror to other people, for them to see parts of you that you never thought you would share with the world.
[00:35:34] And if you are not prepared for that, you may not like the questions that come back from it. And it does make it awkward on the other side when you really wanna dig in and know more, but you're like, I just met you and I'm asking these really personal questions, but your deck did such a wonderful job to just disarm that and feel very comfortable with it and kind of go further with it.
[00:35:54] Without, without feeling like I was pry into your life. And it just really, like, there was that. And then of [00:36:00] course, I'm talking to her and I know we're not doing video on this at all, but she has cats just like I do. And I, my cats, I keep out of my office cuz I'm actually allergic to them. So I limit my time around them.
[00:36:11] But I love my cats that I do spend time with them. Pretty regular. But while I'm talking to her, they're literally like walking in front of the camera and nuzzling up to her. One of 'em goes right up to the camera and is like looking in and looking at the screen. And I'm just like, and on top of that, two of her cats are like twins, almost.
[00:36:29] They're tiger. Orange striped cats. And I had a cat that we had to send to a different family because he started having seizures and bit my son, he looks just like one of her CA like her two cats and he, and so it was so sweet to have a kind of this memory of Oscar with her Jack and Bobby. And she has cats that have them names, cuz so do I, I have Jack and Sally and that's from nightmare before Christmas, but it was, we both had cats named Jack and it was just all these fun little, I, I was saying in our very first meeting.[00:37:00]
[00:37:00] We spent probably five minutes talking about the deck and the story and the other 45 minutes, 55 minutes, just getting to know each other and talking about what do you do and where are you from? And, you know, not that I was trying to pry and learn too much about her, even though her story was very personal.
[00:37:18] But this is that whole, do I wanna be in business with you? Do I want to have these calls with you every week? Do I want to, you'll be excited when the phone rings and it's you and I, I wanna have that conversation and not be like, Ugh, this person again, you know, I don't want that feeling. And so we spent most of that time doing that and ironically, many of our business meetings start out that way.
[00:37:39] Anyway, we check in the cats, the family, how are things, da, da, da, da, and then we get into business. But it, it becomes a family in and of itself. And we spent that time getting to know each other first and kind of establishing that world. And I think that's really important now. Not every producer is like that.
[00:37:55] And I don't want to put this out there that everybody should go be best friends with their [00:38:00] producer. And like, you know, if we live in LA, I guarantee Cris would come over for, for dinner. And we, she would be much like engulfed in my family. Like a lot of people in our world. And if you know me and you know, anybody around me, you know, like we adopt people on a regular basis, but because I don't live there that doesn't, that hasn't necessarily happened yet, but not every producer's like that.
[00:38:20] Some of them are very business oriented. They keep kind of arms, distance. They don't wanna get personal. So just. Understand, as you're getting to know this person kind of what their ins and outs are, cuz you know, not every writer director's like that either. I do have a couple that just don't wanna be friends.
[00:38:35] Like they just wanna do business and they wanna have those conversations and they'll be polite, but it doesn't go further than that. And that's boundaries that you respect cuz again, show business.
[00:38:44] Cris: That's an important thing for people to realize you. A lot of this is about reading, reading the. For lack of a better term, whether it's on the producer's side or the, you know, the writer director, or whoever you're dealing with, you have to read the room in which you're [00:39:00] in to know.
[00:39:01] Oh, so, so this is a great relationship. They like my work, but we're not going to go out to dinner every night. Right. And that's fine. I, which we haven't mentioned, but you know, eventually like throughout the show, as people or this podcast, as listeners listen to each of the episodes, you'll start learning more bits about me, but I have years and years and years of experience working in unscripted, doc TV.
[00:39:23] And I have gotten a criticism from crews over the years, cuz I don't go out and go drink with the crew after we're done with the. I'm just not that person. And it's not that I don't love them all. It's not that I don't think they're family. I just can't handle working a full day like that. And then head heading out to the, to get drinks and come back and work the next day with a working brain cell.
[00:39:50] It just doesn't. My energy gets depleted. By other people. I don't work the other way. I don't gain energy by other people.
[00:39:59] BD: I'm the [00:40:00] opposite. I, I don't, I don't go out and have multiple drinks because again, that's professional distance, but I'll go have other drink, get to know people and be like, guys, the guy work tomorrow, see in the morning and I head out, but it's, but I hear what you're saying, cuz it's there.
[00:40:14] I, there are those people that just don't do that. When it's a weekend, I might actually nudge and be like, you don't have work tomorrow, not with us. No,
[00:40:22] Cris: no. I'll, I'll go out on occasion. I don't, I don't hermit the entire time, but crews are very known for you're in a location you're away from home. You work together and you play together.
[00:40:35] Right. And I don't mean that in an untoward, Mary, I mean, you hang out at a bar and you have a beer or two, you have, you know, Whatever all of that stuff is, it's just too much. Like, especially if I'm the producer trying to keep the story that we're telling in my head, there's actually a lot of work I'm doing too.
[00:40:53] When I get back to my room before I ever get to go to bed, right. Or I go to bed and I wake up super early to [00:41:00] finish some stuff off that needs to be finished before I show up on set so that we are prepared and we don't work, work into overtime. Right. But I think also all of that. Makes me prepare again.
[00:41:10] You have to prepare for these moments. And hopefully be ready when the timing's right? Yeah. Like you meet that, you meet that moment. And yeah, I moved here in 96, bright eye and bushy tailed at 26 going, I'm gonna be a writer first and then I'll end up directing. I had a X file and a, and a Northern exposure, you know, script on, on my pocket.
[00:41:33] And I am so much better now than I was back then. And I've had. A very Securous route to this moment and yes, you can laugh at me. I'm sorry. I'm not, I don't wanna
[00:41:45] BD: interrupt your talking. I'm laughing about your Northern exposure and exfil scripted pocket.
[00:41:51] Cris: That's freaking awesome. Yeah. That's those were the shows I was, uh, obsessed with back then and you know, and back then, I thought you.
[00:41:59] You make a [00:42:00] route and you become a writer in a TV room, and then hopefully maybe you get to direct and then you jump into film and I've always wanted to do film. To be honest, I love those shows and there's plenty of TV shows. I love. Yes. Yes. Talking about cat, this one's, this one's Bobby who you're hearing Ming, but the older I've gotten and now I've written this film.
[00:42:18] Like, no, that's. That's the goal is to make this film. And the goal is also one of the reasons I wanted. I, I loved finding you and, and us realizing we made a good partnership is that you believe the same thing I do. It's a $5 million film. I'm a first time filmmaker in on paper. I mean, I've got years and years of directing.
[00:42:40] Unscripted television. Right. Even though my credit was as a producer, but for all of you out there, if you see a field producing credit or any kind of producing credit on one of those shows, they're the people out there directing the DPS out there. Yeah.
[00:42:55] BD: They're,
[00:42:55] Cris: they're writing that story now. That's changing now.
[00:42:58] I think, I think there are, [00:43:00] there are DGA. You know, shows now that are in that vein. And we'll probably have, I've seen some shows that have people with directing credits and that more power to them. And thank you for busting that wall, cuz it wasn't breaking when I was. You know, going out and doing that, but I have directed in all kinds of situations and had to also figure out how to get, how to, how to do a show with two camels when there were supposed to be eight, you know, all kinds of things that have made me ready.
[00:43:29] BD: Well, and I have a lot of respect for you that you came up through the unscripted world because when I was first in introduced to the industry, my partner was in and he was in 80 on a, in PPAs and stuff like that. And he worked on a lot of unscripted shows. And I had always heard that, like, if you get into unscripted, you're kind of stuck there and he didn't wanna do that.
[00:43:49] So he really pushed himself to get out into the, the, the feature world and the narrative world. And I think that's why I got into the narrative world, cuz I kind of walked in with him. I didn't [00:44:00] go straight to, to unscripted. Now, granted I started as a makeup artist, so it's hard. There aren't really a lot of makeup artists in the unscripted world.
[00:44:06] So it wasn't necessarily something I was gonna get. , but that was my start that got me into it. I have done some docs and docu-series and things like that, but it really like, I always fall back to that narrative feature. And I, when I talk to people who are like, I can't get into it, I realize it's because they don't wanna, they don't wanna pay their dues to work for free to kind of come up through the ranks because that's kind of how you start in the future world to prove that you can do it because each pillar kind of has its own rules.
[00:44:36] And if you try to think you're gonna literally jump from one to the other without a lot of time in one first it's it gets very difficult. You on the other hand, like you, even though this is your first feature film, you're an Emmy award-winning producer in the unscripted world. You are far more experienced than any other first time feature director I've worked with, you know, that you, you you've been on set.
[00:44:58] You understand the command of story, [00:45:00] you understand people, cuz I think that's the hardest part with a of a director is to understand people because not only are you guiding and leading your entire crew from the creative stand. But you're also guiding and leading your talent to get the narrative and the story and the performance that you want from them.
[00:45:17] But in the unscripted world, you're doing that with real people. So it's that much harder, be not trained actors that can turn it on and off like a light switch. These are real people that you're trying to pull these things out of. So they're engaging. So I figure you're that much more qualified and I would honestly go toe to toe with anybody who would say otherwise,
[00:45:35] Cris: well, thank you.
[00:45:36] You've made me blush. I know the listeners can't see it, but I am blushing right now. No. Well, well, and that's the thing is I, and I've always said that this everyone's journey is different everyone's journey is different. Yeah. And there are some people who wind up. Coming out of NYU film school and suddenly they've got their first feature and they're off to this races.
[00:45:55] And then they end up in like wherever they wanted to be, say they wanted to be on a game of [00:46:00] Thrones, directing whatever it is, you know, and that more power to them. And so great and fantastic. And I am there for you. My journey. Was a lot longer and a lot more Securous but I'll tell you right now, the script I wrote that we are gonna make, I couldn't have written in my twenties.
[00:46:16] I couldn't have written in my thirties. I couldn't, I, I wrote it in my late forties. Yeah, because it is, as you said about my journey in life and I, when I met you and we were talking. You were talking about, you didn't know if you needed, if you wanted to dig in or ask I'm ready for that right now, if you had met me in my late thirties, that's when I was kind of like, where am I?
[00:46:38] What, because I think that the script deals a lot with what society expects of women, right. And what the patriarchy expects of women. And. A good portion of that is we're supposed to be in a partnership. And our happiness comes is given to us by someone else, whether it's the prince in the Disney film that the princess finds, whether it's the, all of that [00:47:00] is built into our narrative is women right in this world.
[00:47:04] And I did go through as a matter of fact, I think, and I've said this before in interviews that I've done, I'm far more like. Cris in high school and the Cris that moved here because I did kind of, I always had these blinders. I'm like, I'm going to make a film. And that's all I really thought about. I didn't think about relationships.
[00:47:22] I didn't think about much of that. And then you get, you know, into your twenties and then people and all of that really starts. I mean, most kids, I think, or most people that kind of starts in their teenage years. I was very strange. And I had a sister who also told me not to let a guy, a relationship get in the way of my dreams, which I thank her for all the time.
[00:47:38] but I did. I did know. I mean, and you can see it in the script probably, or feel it is. I did have a moment of, I drove myself to depression thinking there was something wrong with me and there just isn't yeah, humans are all different and we all get love where we want or where, where we should be allowed to get love how we want and from whom we want.
[00:47:57] Right. And right. And it's nobody else's been us [00:48:00] and being, being, single's not a tragedy and it's not a waiting room to marriage. For women. It really isn't if you're feeling that, you know, and I know there's certain communities where men feel very pressured to get married and I've had friends of mine from those communities, read my script and go, I connected with this because I was, that was my, my whole goal was to connect to those, to people who feel like they're not being listened to.
[00:48:22] Right. Or don't fit in quite to society. It's that age? Old story you. The, I mean, I'm a fish outta water and this is the story, you know? Yeah. But because I think it'd be cool to end on this is you are heading to can, which is cool. We've had yep. Go next week. So we've had a couple of, of run-ins trying to get money, right.
[00:48:41] And ups and downs. And, and now we're kind of on our, I would say this is our fourth are really our fourth, like spin, like trying to figure. Where we're going. Right. Cause we have a VC person who's looking at it, but we haven't heard from him right
[00:48:55] BD: now. Yeah. This would be the fourth. I had just didn't think it count about that for a second.
[00:48:59] Yeah. [00:49:00] This is now the fourth.
[00:49:01] Cris: That is true. Yeah. And, and you were saying earlier, things can fall apart. For any reason. One of our things fell apart cuz the person was gonna give us money, his wife and they are getting a divorce and she got his assets frozen, you know like, yeah. You could have seen that one kinda try.
[00:49:14] Yeah. And try, try hearing that one. And after nursing it for four months and being a week away from it, closing that happened to me. Yeah. While I was driving and got that phone call and it was great that he called me like, that's about nursing those relationships. He called me personally and we had a conversation and he still believes in the project.
[00:49:33] He just can't do anything about it. It, it, uh, you know, so, but we've got a VC person who might or might not, I'm not sure yet. We're still. We're still working that relationship, but he says he wants to help, but now you're going to can, and I'm really excited for you cause I've been there. So, and, and talk about that because you're going there without a project, but you're going there to see if you can drum something up.
[00:49:55] Right?
[00:49:55] BD: Well, yeah, that's I, so I don't necessarily have a film in, in the [00:50:00] festival or in the market at the moment, but I do have, you know, Multiple projects that I'm going in the development phase to see if I can get some interest, because again, the majority of the project that I have are, are really pushing, you know, things through the female lens and, and those stories that I want to be told.
[00:50:18] And it's. The irony being, you know, as much as we keep seeing all these articles about how we're lacking in these stories, and we're lacking in female representation and we're lacking, you know, with directors and things like that, there is no shortage of any of that. What it is, is the shortage of the money to get these project done.
[00:50:37] And that has been the most frustrating aspect of trying to do this because I have a network of probably 60 women produce for 60 female producer. That all have these wonderful stories of different, you know, avenues and aspects and, and, and, you know, takes on, on women and, and the trials and tribulations that they go through and, and [00:51:00] ranges anywhere from, you know, a soccer player to, you know, a woman.
[00:51:04] Choosing to remain single to a girl in high school, you know, trying to win a competition to, you know, an older woman who got out of domestic violence, finding her place in the film industry. Like it's, there are literally these stories that are everywhere and they're, they're beautiful and they're rich and they wanna be told by women and they can't find money and I'm, I'm coming up against this wall time and time and time again.
[00:51:28] And so my plan going to can this year is to take my cadre. These stories, you know, and my earnest wears and go find the money and go find people who believe in this and go find people who want to be a part, because I know they're out there. I know they're there. I know the money is there, but it's just like, just like in finding Cris.
[00:51:48] You, the two of us just happened to come together at the right time at the right moment. I think that person is the same thing and I know it's there and I just keep putting myself in these positions to be [00:52:00] able to meet these people. And so that's my plan in going to, to can this year. And really just to find that person and, and I really want that person to be a woman.
[00:52:09] I, because I feel like that needs to happen. I want more women investing in our own stories and in each other and really supporting each other in that way. But I also will take allies and advocates if there are men out there that. See what's happening and wanna be a part of it and want to help this situation.
[00:52:25] I am happy to have them and I will lift them up just as much as anyone else, because you know, advocacy is how we take steps forward in addition to, to, you know, supporting each other. So that that's my plan this year and getting everything ready and. Go, I leave next week. And that's, it's the last little bit trying to get everything packed and ready to go.
[00:52:44] Cris: And that's the optimism you're going and putting yourself in a situation where hopefully something happens. Yeah,
[00:52:50] BD: no something will happen. The words have power. Yeah.
[00:52:53] Cris: Something will, I'm just saying, but yeah, but, but what's what I think is if anyone wants to take [00:53:00] anything away from at least this first conversation is when there's a down, let yourself feel it.
[00:53:05] Go to bed. And when you wake up, wake up crafty. Yep. As in find another way, how am I gonna find another way? Yep. And look back at what you just went through and go, what did I learn from this? Mm-hmm because all of it is, it's not a failure. No, I haven't had
[00:53:22] BD: failure,
[00:53:25] Cris: an educational moment learn. I've had an educational moment and all of those lessons are building my foundation towards my success.
[00:53:30] Yeah. And that's what I. Hope people get from some of this conversation. Yeah. And the further one we'll be having, because you will be there for our victories and for my, for our falling down on our face, because I didn't see the bump in the road that BD tried to tell me about.
[00:53:45] BD: I, I trip over bumps too. It, it happens and I'll pick you up and, and it happens.
[00:53:51] It happened a month ago on a, on one of my other projects. And it was I, what I was down for almost a week. It was hard because it was a big movie and it [00:54:00] was, it was, it was big and it was all the things part to it had come together and it was really exciting and that movie was going to elevate us and everything else that we were that, you know, we were doing.
[00:54:10] And when. Fell apart with nothing that I had any control over whatsoever, and it didn't happen. And it, it took me like a week to get outta that funk. I mean, I will say I kind of, I went through the stages grief but you do. And I think recognizing that you go through that is important and feeling it and understanding it.
[00:54:30] And then by the time you come out on the other side of it, you can turn around and look back at it and. This happened for a reason. I don't know what it is. And I know I will know down the road, but this is for a reason. And I'm looking forward to the day that I understand what it is and I'm ready for whatever is next.
[00:54:45] And when you can do that, that's when something really awesome opens up right in front
[00:54:49] Cris: of you. Yeah. And it's also, there's the lessons, but there's also the people you're meeting along the journey. So there's a person we met. because of that one that fell apart because of [00:55:00] the poor man's funds being locked by a judge.
[00:55:04] But what came out of it was a new relationship who was connected to possible people with money. Yeah. But also who believes in me and the project, because he watched me and you working so hard to make this deal work
[00:55:18] BD: right. To cont well, and continue to move forward and not get down when it didn't happen.
[00:55:21] Like we. A meeting and said, so what are our next steps? And there was not even, we had a small hiccup, you know, same thing. Like I think you were down for probably three or four days. And we had a couple calls where it's like, what are we gonna do? And then, and then we, we lived in it. We felt it, we understood it.
[00:55:39] And then we stepped out of it and we had a meeting with this person and we said, What's next. Who else do we talk to the steps? And I think he was so impressed by our ability to not let this like drag us down into the depth, then be like, oh, it didn't work. And all this drama and everything that went around it.
[00:55:58] He was like, you know what? I'm gonna help you. [00:56:00] I'm gonna help you with this next step. I'm gonna make sure this happens. Now, it's mine. Now I want this to happen. And he started to take ownership of it in helping us find these people. And this is what you want. You wanna inspire other people with your stick to itness and your grit and your, you know, I get it, it hurts and I don't like it, but I'm gonna keep moving forward.
[00:56:22] And that, that empowers and encourages and impresses other people. And you're not doing it for that reason, but it, it causes people to come in and say, I wanna be a part of that. And that's where that ball gets rolling. And it's like the little snowball that becomes the big snowball that becomes the avalanche.
[00:56:39] And that's we're right now, kind of in that middle, we're getting to a big snowball and we're, we're getting close to that avalanche.
[00:56:46] Cris: Yeah, we're, we're, we're getting to that place where we will be ready when that Tip's over. Yeah. You know, and everything that we've done up until this point has led us to here.
[00:56:55] BD: So I've taken us a year to get here, you know, and we, we had really hoped we would [00:57:00] be in post, you know, by now and, and ready to deliver, you know, for Sundance this coming year. But it, like we said, things didn't go the way we thought they were. So we regrouped and we just, you know, kept moving forward and we're like, Let's set another date and we just keep doing that and pushing to that date to make sure that, you know, we can make it happen.
[00:57:20] Yeah.
[00:57:21] Cris: Well, I don't wanna take up any more of your time cuz you've got a big trip to get ready for, but we will do one another. Maybe another one is when you're done for when you've back from, can for a debrief. Yeah,
[00:57:32] BD: we can do that. We can do one after, but we can also kind of talk about next steps cuz we kind of talked about, you know, meeting and what that was.
[00:57:38] Yeah. Find a next step aspect.
[00:57:41] Cris: Yeah, totally. I'm just gonna wish you some luck. And as you, whoever to all the listeners out there who have found us somehow, thank you for coming on this crazy journey with us. And there'll be more episodes like this dropped in throughout, but around them will be interviews that I have with producers and.
[00:57:57] Also people who maybe talk about the [00:58:00] issues that I wrote in about in my script. So they may not be filmmakers, but they might be other people that are just a really interesting conversation for you to listen to. Thank you so much for tuning in to BLIS spinster. If any of these conversations are resonating with you, please subscribe on apple podcast, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:58:16] You can find bliss will spinster on Instagram and Twitter and through our website, bliss will spinster.com. Again, thanks so much for joining me on this journey and until next week go find your happy.